Those Damned Cachous

[Malcolm X]

Even Ivor Edwards didn't like talking about it in too much detail either, and he's a bloke i really admire

[Sam Flynn]

The cachous have two issues surrounding them.

... two tissues, surely?

[Malcolm X]

There's a billion threads about Stride's candidacy as a Ripper victim, so let's try to keep this one about the cachous and what we can infer from it.

The foreman of the inquest and Dr. Phillips had the following exchange:

The Foreman: Do you not think that the woman would have dropped the packet of cachous altogether if she had been thrown to the ground before the injuries were inflicted?

Dr. Phillips: That is an inference which the jury would be perfectly entitled to draw.
While not committing himself, it's clear that Dr. Phillips did not think the cachous would have maintained the same appearance that he witnessed with his own eyes had Stride been thrown from the ground. I'm inclined to agree that if Stride were in fact thrown to the ground by BS Man, she was not holding the cachous at the time. What are your thoughts?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

right ok, if you're thrown to the ground i would say that it's natural to open your hands to break/soften your fall, sort of instinctive...... but maybe not in her case.......what you have to consider is this, those breath fresheners are unlikely to be for BS after what he did to her, she would have been pretty cross with him after that. those cachous would've dropped out of her hand and fallen all over the pavement, or if still in her clenched hand, expect to see her forearm grazed up and dirty, wrist either broken or sprayned, or tucked in out of the way as she hit the road. mind you; we dont know exactly how she fell....

i wouldn't believe anything that Schwartz said, he changed his story twice

[c.d.]

Hi Tom,

It is a natural reaction when falling to try to reach out and catch yourself with your hands. Had Liz done that it would seem likely to break open the packet of cachous. So if she wasn't holding the cachous when thrown to the ground by the BS man the question is when did she put them into her hand. Hard to believe it would be immediately after being thrown to the ground and while being dragged into the yard by the BS man. That simply does not make sense. To me, it indicates that she was in a non-threatening environment when she did so. The BS man scenario is nothing but threatening.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

Mal,

Not sure what you mean, or what Ivor has to do with this. But we've talked about Stride's candidacy as a Ripper victim until we're blue in the face. That's why I suggested we keep this thread on topic.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

C.D. and M&P,

I'll briefly go over what I feel happened here, since it does involve the cachous. Following the fleeing of Stride, I believe BS Man mugged Stride, forced her to empty her pockets for money. Money then was all in coin, so when she retrieved the coins, the more bulky paper of the tissue lodged itself between her thumb and forefinger, exactly as paper money does in OUR hands when retrieving change from a large or loose pocket.
I believe this is why a thimble was found next to Eddowes' hand (same scenario) and why Chapman's belongs were on the ground by her feet. The knicks to her hand, by their placement, suggest she was alive and conscious when the rings were taken.
The ruse of robbery, by this theory, is precisely what kept the victims quiet. "Do as you're told and you won't get hurt" by someone with a weapon usually breeds compliance.

Anyway, this is a simple theory that explains the alleged silence of the victims, the strange personal items located on or around them, why none of them had any money, etc.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

C. d. writes:

"To me, the cachous indicate that Liz was caught completely off guard. I just don't see how that could have happened had she been killed by the BS man."

It´s in my dissertation on the boards,C.d - at least my suggestion is. I think you are spot on - she WAS caught off guard.

The best,
Fisherman

[Malcolm X]

Mal,

Not sure what you mean, or what Ivor has to do with this. But we've talked about Stride's candidacy as a Ripper victim until we're blue in the face. That's why I suggested we keep this thread on topic.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

yea i know, see my latest reply.

[Mr.Hyde]

http://www.licorice.org/LicoriceFind...u_lajaunie.htm
This product is not exactly cheap.It is top of the line gourmet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice
I came down with CFS/ME 26 years ago.Know lots of people with similar diseases,eg Lupus,MS.One of these friends uses Licorice tea and Jubes.Tried both myself.
Can see the Jubes joke coming from the other end of the Earth.

[Malcolm X]

C.D. and M&P,

I'll briefly go over what I feel happened here, since it does involve the cachous. Following the fleeing of Stride, I believe BS Man mugged Stride, forced her to empty her pockets for money. Money then was all in coin, so when she retrieved the coins, the more bulky paper of the tissue lodged itself between her thumb and forefinger, exactly as paper money does in OUR hands when retrieving change from a large or loose pocket.
I believe this is why a thimble was found next to Eddowes' hand (same scenario) and why Chapman's belongs were on the ground by her feet. The knicks to her hand, by their placement, suggest she was alive and conscious when the rings were taken.
The ruse of robbery, by this theory, is precisely what kept the victims quiet. "Do as you're told and you won't get hurt" by someone with a weapon usually breeds compliance.

Anyway, this is a simple theory that explains the alleged silence of the victims, the strange personal items located on or around them, why none of them had any money, etc.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

yes maybe or maybe he robbed them after death! while waiting for them to bleed out, one cant tell for sure, BS attacked her a bit too early on for my liking... PERIOD, but hay; you dont want to talk about it, so i cant go into any more detail can i.

[c.d.]

C. d. writes:

"To me, the cachous indicate that Liz was caught completely off guard. I just don't see how that could have happened had she been killed by the BS man."

It´s in my dissertation on the boards,C.d - at least my suggestion is. I think you are spot on - she WAS caught off guard.

The best,
Fisherman

Would she have been caught off guard if her killer was the BS man?

c.d.

[Malcolm X]

http://www.licorice.org/LicoriceFind...u_lajaunie.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice
I came down with CFS/ME 26 years ago.Know lots of people with similar diseases,eg Lupus.One of these friends uses Licorice tea and Jubes.Tried both myself.

hallo Dave how are you
i had to close a few of those Kelly windows last night, yes they're noisy

[Malcolm X]

Would she have been caught off guard if her killer was the BS man?

c.d.

she would've been scared if she saw him come back that's for sure.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi CD, no she would not have. If BS Man were in fact her killer, then my scenario seems to make the most sense, at least to my mind.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Hi Tom,

One problem that I have with your scenario is that it would take time. A prudent person would have to assume that there was a good possibility that Schwartz had run off to find a policeman who was now on his way to the scene of the crime. Another reason why I don't see the BS man as her killer.

c.d.