Are we justified in labelling Kate a thief?

[GUT]

G'Day Errata

Totally agree, it would really depend, as it has almost forever, on your employer.

[Errata]

It's highly doubtful that she had any access to a "service" job like being a slavey or a tweenie. That requires connections. The Downton model works because they were all from the village, and all had connections.

She might well have "done" for some couple, and the experience there was as varied as families. Some of these girls were treated like family. Some were horribly abused (Annie Oakley was one such). I imagine most were somewhere in the middle.

As an afterthought, there was a job of being a scourer, but it was an industrial job usually occupied by small boys who scoured cast metal objects to clean off the mold lines. Like pewter mugs or pots or what have you.

[Paddy]

Mothers death

Her Mother Catherine Eddowes died Dec qtr 1855 Bermondsey.

Pat.......................................

[PC Fitzroy-Toye]

Maybe a thief ,but cosidering her prospects in life maybe she was just being a good survivor in life.

[curious4]

Speculation

Hallo Steve S,

Thank you. I shall be more precise in my posts in future - at least I'll try! Perhaps something along the lines of "this post contains facts and some speculation"! lol

I appreciate your words of warning, this is something I hadn't thought of.

Best wishes,
C4

[Steve S]

Without speculation we wouldn't be here.........I just find to clearly define the difference between fact and opinion saves a lot of tears later........As it happens,I think you may well be right,but you don't want people berating you for stating it as a fact.............

[curious4]

Speculation

The road to From Hell is paved with good intentions. Sorry, couldn't resist that one!

C4

[curious4]

Kate's work

Oh dear, definitely not what I want to happen! I was trying to find an explanation for her running away, and why she was accused of stealing. Somewhere along the way something went very wrong for her. I agree that her working conditions weren't necessarily that bad, but she must have been unhappy for some reason and we can see from her later life that she was far from lazy.

Just wanted to put up a possible reason for her actions and many children were working in these conditions, although they were better off than those in the mines or the cotton factories.

Regards,
C4

PS Hope a little speculation is allowed!

[Steve S]

It is a logical guess for a job,but we can't really say what HER conditions would have been like IF that was the job...Sorry if I appear picky,but I get paranoid about guesses metamorphasising into facts 3 forum pages later............

Steve

[curious4]

Kate

Hello Steve S,

No, just a guess on my part when considering which jobs would be open to ten-year-olds. (Or even 12, 13 year-olds.) Both of her elder sisters were in service, so may well have thought it a good option for her.

Just a guess, I admit, but a fairly logical one I thought.

Best wishes,
C4

[Steve S]

Hello Bridewell,

I suppose the mother is also listed in the census? There is the report in the Wolverhampton paper, quoted in the "victims" section, which gives the date of Kate's mother's death as 1851. Is there a proper record of her death?

In my scenario I was giving an accurate (I believe, also gathered from my reading) of the reality for many children, ten years was an acceptable age at which to start in domestic service and not many houses came up to the Downton Abbey standards. Child labour was rife and full of horrors, in spite of the fact that there was an effort to improve things in the middle of the century. Whatever age Kate was, she was still a child and does not deserve to be branded a thief.

Best wishes,
C4

Accurate as a generic.maybe...But there's nothing to link it with Kate specifically............

[curious4]

Kate

Hello Bridewell,

I suppose the mother is also listed in the census? There is the report in the Wolverhampton paper, quoted in the "victims" section, which gives the date of Kate's mother's death as 1851. Is there a proper record of her death?

In my scenario I was giving an accurate (I believe, also gathered from my reading) of the reality for many children, ten years was an acceptable age at which to start in domestic service and not many houses came up to the Downton Abbey standards. Child labour was rife and full of horrors, in spite of the fact that there was an effort to improve things in the middle of the century. Whatever age Kate was, she was still a child and does not deserve to be branded a thief.

Best wishes,
C4

[curious4]

Kate

Hello Bridewell,

I suppose the mother is also listed in the census? There is the report in the Wolverhampton paper, quoted in the "victims" section, which gives the date of Kate's mother's death as 1851. Is there a proper record of her death?

In my scenario I was giving an accurate picture (I believe, also gathered from my reading) of the reality for many children, ten years was an acceptable age at which to start in domestic service and not many houses came up to the Downton Abbey standards. Child labour was rife and full of horrors, in spite of the fact that there was an effort to improve things in the middle of the century. Whatever age Kate was, she was still a child and does not deserve to be branded a thief.

Best wishes,
C4

[Bridewell]

In the 1851 census, when she was ten, she was still living with her parents at 35, West Street, Bermondsey and is shown as "Scholar". Presumably, if she was in employment at that age, it was later in the same year.

[Bridewell]

In 1861, when she was living with her uncle, William, at 50 Bilston Street, Wolverhampton, "Cath" Eddowes has her occupation listed as "Scourer". Not much had changed in several years, it would seem!