The most important murder to solve?

[DVV]

Hi all,
the Millwood and Wilson cases may also be relevant. Unsuccessful (or "half unsuccessful") indoors assaults, which would have prompted the killer to change his MO.
Then, when the streets became too risky, he stopped killing in October. In November, he got the opportunity to work indoors, successfully this time.
Amitiés,
David

[Fisherman]

Stan writes:

"I think, in general, the most important murders to solve in a serial are the first, the second and the last."

Agreed, Stan! To my mind, that leaves us with Tabram, Nichols and Kelly, and yes, they would provide all the keys required to reach a fair understanding of how and why the murders started, in what direction they developed and how and why they stopped.

The ones left out, Chapman and Eddowes, could be described as the most archetypical Ripper killings, and that of course has itīs merits when it comes to trying to understand the deeds. But the fact remains that they both represent sort of a "frozen" MO, and tell us comparatively little of what was going on.

The best,
Fisherman

Hi Stan, Sam, all....

I get your problem with some of the inclusions at the end Sam, I suppose I used them to isolate this one murder better, but on the idea that the witness who saw the suspect with Kate is believed to have seen "the" killer, I would stick with.

We have a senior investigative opinion that the only person who saw Jack was "a city PC near Mitre Square",...obviously incorrect in part at least but perhaps not wholly, we have what is widely believed to be the witness who alledgedly "refused" to identify a suspect believed to be Jack the Ripper as being almost certainly Lawende, a witness who is called to identify suspects perhaps 2 or 3 times, years later in one case......and the nearest to the "time of the murder/ suspect and victim sighting" of a Canonical victim who is killed in the manner associated with Jack the Ripper specifically.

It would seem the police thought Lawende saw Jack the Ripper.

All the best Sam.

[sdreid]

I think, in general, the most important murders to solve in a serial are the first, the second and the last. She's probably none of those though there's a slim chance she could have been the last. In that case, you have to ask why the killer stopped with her.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Mike,

I broadly agree with everything you say, but these...

its rumoured to be the murder that produces an eyewitness suspect description so close to the time of the victims death, that he is believed to have seen "Jack" and is later used a few times to view suspected Ripper candidates. Perhaps even chose not to identify one he recognized... Its the only City murder, the only murder that had policemen in abundance from the outset of the discovery, the only victim to my knowledge that is sketched in place by a medical official, and the only murder of all 5 that is the second one in a single night.

...are somewhat incidental, and arguably extraneous to the murder itself.

[Fisherman]

Well, Michael, itīs just that I have a feeling that he tuned his instrument in George Yard ...

The best,
Fisherman

Fair point Jon, but none of those three are Canonicals, and as such, are not assumed to be the victims of the single killer Jack the Ripper.

For my money, Alice's death had more in common with Jack than Liz's did, but I'm just an amateur I guess.

Cheers Jon.

Hi Fisherman,

From a psychological standpoint, I can see why you have such interest in Martha, if she was the commencement victim. For me though that murder is interesing primarily for the enjoyment the killer obviously received from stabbing flesh, and I dont see that as a focal interest in any other of the Canonicals myself.

The point thread wise though, is that there is hardly anything that can be used as evidence against a suspect seen with her,other than a military type weapon being used once, there is no witness that sees her at all within an hour prior to her death likely, and there is no evidence that can be used to determine where he might have gone after killing her, and she was not found by a policeman..who is trained in leaving the scene untouched. Polly's clothing was altered by passers by, Liz Strides pulse was taken by passers by, Annie was found by a resident in the house....we cant know if any of those women were moved, or anything altered regarding the physical evidence at the scene. Heck...if there had been a 5 L note in any of the hands of the women I just mentioned, do you think it would still be there when the police finally arrived?

Best regards Fisherman.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Michael

What about Mylett,McKenzie and Coles, all discovered by policemen.

Personally, I feel Hanbury St holds the key. It`s the 05.15 am pick up of Chapman.

[Fisherman]

The second murder on that night...? Thatīs blasphemy, Michael, and you well know it!

To me, there is only one answer to your question: The Tabram slaying. It tells us a lot of the manīs psychology and it shows us how he adapted to the circumstances given as he went along. To me, it represents the rise of the Ripper. The rest is just more stations along the same track, more or less - until he reached Millerīs Court. Now, THAT was a different thing altogether I should think.

The best, Michael!
Fisherman

[perrymason]

Hello all,

I suppose that everyone who studies these crimes feels even subconsciously that one of the murders is more important to figure out than the others. For some, its the first in a series, for others its the abrupt end in Millers Court, for others its the busy and mysterious night of Sept 30th.

For me, in terms of evidentiary value, the killing in Mitre Square, no more or less complex or confusing than at least 3 other women in the series in terms of actions taken, offers us the best opportunity to have a peek at the real killer they called "Jack the Ripper".

Not to say he was Jack for certain, just that this murder offers us....

-a witnessed suspect with the victim so close to the time of her death that he almost must be her killer
-its the first and only of all 5 investigations that begins with a police officer finding the body first, allowing us to trust the evidence and initial positions indicated
-its the first and only crime scene that extends beyond its immediate area and jurisdiction via the apron section in Goulston, allowing us to perhaps trace an escape route home
-and its rumoured to be the murder that produces an eyewitness suspect description so close to the time of the victims death, that he is believed to have seen "Jack" and is later used a few times to view suspected Ripper candidates. Perhaps even chose not to identify one he recognized.

Its the only City murder, the only murder that had policemen in abundance from the outset of the discovery, the only victim to my knowledge that is sketched in place by a medical official, and the only murder of all 5 that is the second one in a single night.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether they concur,..or disagree...or have facts to add?

My best regards to all.