Kate's fire engine performance

[Celesta]

Anything Dan Farson has published needs to be taken with a large grain of salt - he shamelessly embellished whatever anyone told him, and most of his research was of the cut and paste variety, in later life anyway.

I knew Dan quite well and worked with him on his book on Francis Bacon (to save him from himself, not for the money LOL) and I was quite put out that he jumbled up several of the stories I got for him (and painstakingly gave him in typed up notes!).

"Yes but they make better stories the way I've told it, and they have more of a poetic truth like that!" was his explanation

I've heard this about him, Sara. It must have been pretty frustrating. Trying to get someone to do something they ought to do gets to be a daunting task. I imagine that history was recorded by a large number of people who were more interested in "poetic truth" than the real thing.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello SW!

And welcome aboard on my behalf!

Personally I don't give a rat's mooning performance ( ) for the fire engine thing, since;

it's not at all necessary thinking about the things happening during the double-event nigh!

All the best
Jukka

[Spitalfields Wanderer]

... and I meant to say I don't see the point of your "I hate to point out the obvious" - rather a sarcastic comment. I have only been a member of this board for a few days and am bemused to put it mildly by the number of disparaging comments and the level of 'one upmanship' that goes on. It seems that the only thing more precious than a room full of actors is a messageboard full of Ripperlogists.

[Spitalfields Wanderer]

I have read accounts to the opposite, I guess it goes to show how the devil is in the detail and hard to pin down accurately.

[kensei]

Although it may well not be a true story, Kate would have had to pass Bishopsgate Fire Station (est 1884/5) if she turned left out of the police station and made her way down Bishopsgate before turning off towards Mitre Square, perhaps there was some activity there at the time and this fired her imagination (no pun intended). If there is some truth in it it certainly makes Kate's story all the more poignant and seems to highlight the sheer vulnerability of the 'unfortunates' at this time.

I hate to point out the obvious but Kate's fire engine performance was alleged to have taken place before her arrest, not after her release.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Eddowes was arrested in front of 29 Aldgate High Street although numbers 28 and 29 seem to have been merged into one unit operated by Henry Phillips, listed as a furniture warehouseman.

Wolf.

[Spitalfields Wanderer]

Hi Bulldog - as far as I am aware we don't know anything more specific than 'Aldgate' at around 8.30 p.m. I have never seen an actual street name mentioned.

[Bulldog]

Where was Eddowes when she was arrested? Does anyone know what street?

Bulldog

[Spitalfields Wanderer]

Although it may well not be a true story, Kate would have had to pass Bishopsgate Fire Station (est 1884/5) if she turned left out of the police station and made her way down Bishopsgate before turning off towards Mitre Square, perhaps there was some activity there at the time and this fired her imagination (no pun intended). If there is some truth in it it certainly makes Kate's story all the more poignant and seems to highlight the sheer vulnerability of the 'unfortunates' at this time.

[Sara]

Wasn't Farson the one who collected a lot of stories from local people about JtR and the victims?

I saw reference to this recently and thought it was in my The Best of Ripperology, but I was mistaken.

Anything Dan Farson has published needs to be taken with a large grain of salt - he shamelessly embellished whatever anyone told him, and most of his research was of the cut and paste variety, in later life anyway.

I knew Dan quite well and worked with him on his book on Francis Bacon (to save him from himself, not for the money LOL) and I was quite put out that he jumbled up several of the stories I got for him (and painstakingly gave him in typed up notes!).

"Yes but they make better stories the way I've told it, and they have more of a poetic truth like that!" was his explanation

[Monty]

It's probably just a conflation and distortion of the facts - e.g., she had a ladder in her stocking, she died not far from St Mary Axe, and someone heard that Jack was down on hose. Perhaps Mr Bell would like to comment...

An impossible task Gareth....Im speechless.

Monty

[Cap'n Jack]

My understanding is that Rumble-on does a fine 'personation of Catherine Eddowes 'personating a fire engine when he gives a tour round Whitechapel.
All froth and foam I say.

[Chris]

"What is known is that at eight o'clock that evening she was arrested by two City policemen for being drunk and disorderly. She had been standing in the middle of the road imitating a fire engine."

Tom Cullen, When London Walked In Terror, page 146, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1965.

Thank you. I had been looking at a brief account of the incident earlier in the book. He goes into more detail later on. (No index, of course.)

[Celesta]

Thanks Wolf and Sam.

Wasn't Farson the one who collected a lot of stories from local people about JtR and the victims?

I saw reference to this recently and thought it was in my The Best of Ripperology, but I was mistaken.

[Sam Flynn]

Tom Cullen, When London Walked In Terror, page 146, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1965.

Farson repeats the story later, adding the detail that Kate was found "staggering in the middle of the road" to his version of the fire-engine tale (Daniel Farson, Jack the Ripper, p36 - Michael Joseph, 1972).