Did the Ripper live in Goulston Street

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

[QUOTE=Malcolm X;85589]where's Hyde ? [/
Find out what the Goulstonian Lectures were and who did and did not win them.
Someone may get some insight as to who JTR was and where he was not going.
Some twerp has just put me in for trolling.May not be back in a hurry unless I get an apology.

[Jdombrowski89]

I doubt that a killer who fled the scene of Eddowes murder would return after throwing the incriminating piece of evidence that would tie him to Eddowes murder in the first place, come back to the scene with that incriminating piece of evidence and stand over it chalking a message in the dark, the writing would be all over the place and be somewhat unreadable. The chalked message i believe was written when enough light could be of use so that it could be seen well enough. I don't think that the killer of Eddowes wrote that message at all, just part of the anti-seminitic writings that could be found all over the east-end.

I agree with you on this one. My thoughts being also that the Goulston Street Graffito means absolutely nothing in terms of being connected to the case besides being anti-semetic. You have to remember this guy just got off with killing two women, in the span of about an hour, in one night. He's got two seperate forms of Police Jurisdictions after him as well, so therefore I think that the Goulston Street location of the Wentworth Dwellings is of some significance because of the following:

1. I think that this is possibly a way towards his lodgings. Why else would the killer be so foolish as to travel out of his own way, carrying the bloody apron,etc.
2. There's obviously a deadline here before being caught so I don't think he would stop and drop the apron, magically have chalk on him, and just write an anti-semetic statement on the wall to fool police. It just doesn't make sense to me to be bluntly honest. If I was the killer I'd be hurrying up as fast as possible.

Regards,
Justin

[John Bennett]

..and in 1891 Richard and Sarah Frances Smith, had moved from the Castle Alley Baths and Washhouse to the Goulston St Baths and Washhouse.

I believe they were the same thing. The building faced onto Goulston Street and backed onto Castle Alley (you can see this on Rob's map above). Richard and Sarah Smith's room looked out over the latter.

JB

[Rob Clack]

Could I ask if you have an opinion/view on the time difference between Eddows murder and the time that the apron was found?

You can.
For what it's worth, my opinion is the apron was in the passageway of 108 to 119 WMD by 2 o'clock. And P.C Long just never noticed it when he passed the spot at 2:20.

Rob

[Issack]

Thanks Rob for your detailed map.

Could I ask if you have an opinion/view on the time difference between Eddows murder and the time that the apron was found?

[Rob Clack]

[QUOTE=Issack;85639]I had noted that Issacc Kosminski . is listed in the 1891 census: a father, Isaac, 43, boot and shoemaker, a mother, son, (all born in Poland) and a daughter, Betsy, 17, born in Whitechapel. Living at 76 Goulston St .I had thought it possible the family was already at this address in the autumn of 1888 (possibly not if Rob is correct that 76 did not exist in 1888 . Thanks for the detailed information Rob)
QUOTE]

Well the actual address as Chris and Scott pointed out was Brunswick Buildings, Goulston Street. Number 79 being where Issac lived. I'm fairly certain the building was there in 1888 (whether Issac was there in 1888 is another thing entirely).
This is the location of number 79 Brunswick Buildings. and I've marked the location of 108 to 119 Wentworth Model Dwellings.



Rob

[Issack]

Re my previous post. This is an ‘opinion’ based upon the timing of the murder (of Eddows (Between 1.35 and 1:45) and the discovery of the apron at approximately 2:55. 1 hour + 10mins latter)

Although it was said at the time that the apron was discarded as the ripper fled the scene, the timing would suggest otherwise. (i.e he went somewhere possibly in the Goulston street area.)

I have found a rather excellent dissertation by Jon Smythe, who actually puts forward a similar Idea :-

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-graffito.html

I had noted that Issacc Kosminski . is listed in the 1891 census: a father, Isaac, 43, boot and shoemaker, a mother, son, (all born in Poland) and a daughter, Betsy, 17, born in Whitechapel. Living at 76 Goulston St .I had thought it possible the family was already at this address in the autumn of 1888 (possibly not if Rob is correct that 76 did not exist in 1888 . Thanks for the detailed information Rob)

(information found at http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-isaac.html

I had thought that I had read that Issacc had appeared in a previous census , unfortunately I cannot locate the book I read it in.

I agree that there is no proof that Issacc was ever suspected but attention could have been turned to the name Kosminski following the house to house search which followed Eddows murder .

I would be interested if somebody knows of information relating tho Issacc’s whereabouts in 1888
Or is the house to house search uncovered the name Kosminski.

I was mistaken in my belief that Goulston street fell under City police jurisdiction, many thanks Rob for correcting me on this.

[Jon Guy]

..and in 1891 Richard and Sarah Frances Smith, had moved from the Castle Alley Baths and Washhouse to the Goulston St Baths and Washhouse.

[Malcolm X]

where's Hyde ?

[Natalie Severn]

By way of trivia, 57 Brunswick Buildings was the 1891 address of Abraham Radin - hairdresser, and former landlord of one S. Klosowski.

Do you know Sam,I was about to go back to the other thread and ask you about that.Fascinating info! I mean Klosowski aka Chapman might even have called in on them there! After all,they were old Jewish friends of his----"who would not be blamed for nothing"?

[Sam Flynn]

By way of trivia, 57 Brunswick Buildings was the 1891 address of Abraham Radin - hairdresser, and former landlord of one S. Klosowski.

[Scott Nelson]

He made it up. Incidently, Isaac's 1891 address at the Brunswick Building was actually #79, not #76. He and his family had been in London since about 1874 (according to his daughter's age and birthplace, so he could have lived at this address in 1888).

[Stephen Thomas]

One option that I have not seen put forward is this:-

Having completing the murder of Eddows at about 1:40am Issac Kosminski (JTR) returned to his abode at 76 Goulston Street, carrying the stolen body parts wrapped within the cut away piece of Eddows apron. His ‘accomplice’ or ‘lookout’, Aaron Kosminski returned with him, and they both remained hidden within 76 Goulston Street where the body parts were removed from the apron, and possibly disposed of.
About 2:45am (an hour later) Aaron left 76 Goulston Street to return to his abode at 3 Sion Square.
Just as he left, he realised that he still had with him the blood soaked (but now empty) piece of apron stuffed inside his coat pocket. Hearing the approaching P.C Long on his beat Aaron quickly discarded the piece of apron into the doorway of the Wentworth model dwellings as he passed, where it was discovered at 2:55am.

A house to house search was made in the area, and the name Kosminski was noted as acting ‘suspicious’ , to an extent that the premises were watched.


Macnaughten’s Memoranda was actually referring to Issac Kosminski who had been identified as a possible suspect in the house to house search following Eddows murder. (although he only referred to the last name.) He did, however, note that the suspect was being watched by city CID, this is due to the fact that Goulston Street, fell under the city police area, and the original crime of Eddows was within their jurisdiction.

The writing on the wall found above the portion of apron, was, in my opinion, not written by either I.K or A.K and has only been remembered in history due to its location in the same area that the apron was found.

Hi Issack

Welcome to the boards here.

May I ask where you got this information from?

Or did you just make it all up?

[Rob Clack]

Cheers Chris, than 76 Brunswick Buildings would be towards the Southern end of Goulston Street on the West side.

Rob

[Chris]

As far as I can tell there was no number 76 Goulston Street in 1888. But what I do know is that Goulston Street was under Metropolitan Police jurisdiction.

I think this is a reference to the Isaac Kozminski who was living at 76 Brunswick Buildings in the 1891 census.

We can say that there is no evidence that Aaron was related to this Isaac. Certainly they were not brothers, and there is no birth registration at Klodawa of an Isaac/Iciek Kozminski whose age would be close to that of the Goulston Street Isaac.

We also know that Aaron wasn't living at 3 Sion Square at the time of the murders, as his brother Woolf didn't move there until late 1889 or early 1890.

I think it's also important to remember that although Macnaghten doesn't mention his "Kosminski's" given name, he does say that he was committed to an asylum. This doesn't fit any Kozminski except Aaron (although there is obviously a discrepancy with regard to the date).