Mitre Sq., arranged meeting scenarios

[Sam Flynn]

It makes no sense at all. As if Jack the Ripper would have bothered to ask a potential victim's name, releasing her if the name, or alias, she gave didn't vaguely resemble Pearly Poll's. A woman who, by all accounts, had a distinctive voice and appearance.

[Batman]

Possible JtR Solution

https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=10991

The geographic profile I have been working on tells me I should be looking closely at Tabram and Nichols.

So here goes...

Mary Ann Connelly (Pearly Poll) was giving evidence that she had seen the soldier who was with Martha Tabram the night she was murdered.

Could Jack the Ripper have been someone who is trying to locate Mary Ann Connelly, to wipe out this witness?

Mary Polly Anne Nichols.
Anne Chapman.
Mary Anne Kelly a.k.a - Catherine Eddowes
Mary Jane Kelly.

This seems to make heaps off sense. Too much maybe.

[DJA]

Hi PS,

Daily News
United Kingdom
4 October 1888

Last night Eliza Gold, or Frost, the sister, who lives at 6, Thrawl-street, Spitalfields, made the following statement. She did this with difficulty, as she is suffering from a serious attack of illness consequent on the sudden discovery of her sister's shocking end. "It was this morning," she said, "when I was called to the mortuary to identify her, poor girl-I never dreamed that she would come to such an end as this, and I can't get over it. I really don't know how old she was, but I am fifty-two, and she was considerably younger. Perhaps she was about forty-two. She was born at Wolverhampton. All of us were born there. She was not married to Conway, but she went to live with him while in London. She has lived here almost all her life. Her name was Catherine Eddowes. Conway was in the army, but I don't know in what regiment. She had two or three children by him. It's rather strange-one of them, the girl that's married, came to me last week and asked me if I had seen anything of her mother. She said it was a very long time since she had seen her; but it was a long time since I had, too, and I told her so. In fact I have not seen her much oftener than once or twice since she has been with Kelly, though we lived so close together. We were not on the best of terms. I think it is only five or six years since Conway left her. Then she got in with Kelly, and I believe she has stuck to him all along. I certainly don't think she ever went out with other men, though I have told you that I did not see much of her. She was always a regular jolly sort, but she would never do anything wrong. I cannot imagine what she was doing in Mitre-square. ["]

Interesting,given Kate was caring for Eliza late August before going hopping.
That is at least the third version given by a very distraught Eliza Gold.

Was Annie seeking her mother when she returned from hopping near Kent?
Why? Especially as she had been avoiding her for over two years.

Eliza seems to have been illiterate. Her defacto's name may have been James Fruit.

[packers stem]

Hi PS,

Daily News
United Kingdom
4 October 1888

Last night Eliza Gold, or Frost, the sister, who lives at 6, Thrawl-street, Spitalfields, made the following statement. She did this with difficulty, as she is suffering from a serious attack of illness consequent on the sudden discovery of her sister's shocking end. "It was this morning," she said, "when I was called to the mortuary to identify her, poor girl-I never dreamed that she would come to such an end as this, and I can't get over it. I really don't know how old she was, but I am fifty-two, and she was considerably younger. Perhaps she was about forty-two. She was born at Wolverhampton. All of us were born there. She was not married to Conway, but she went to live with him while in London. She has lived here almost all her life. Her name was Catherine Eddowes. Conway was in the army, but I don't know in what regiment. She had two or three children by him. It's rather strange-one of them, the girl that's married, came to me last week and asked me if I had seen anything of her mother. She said it was a very long time since she had seen her; but it was a long time since I had, too, and I told her so. In fact I have not seen her much oftener than once or twice since she has been with Kelly, though we lived so close together. We were not on the best of terms. I think it is only five or six years since Conway left her. Then she got in with Kelly, and I believe she has stuck to him all along. I certainly don't think she ever went out with other men, though I have told you that I did not see much of her. She was always a regular jolly sort, but she would never do anything wrong. I cannot imagine what she was doing in Mitre-square. ["]

Thank You Jerry
One of the most interesting snippets I've seen in a long time
Certainly helping things 'click' into place
One may suspect she had very good reason to come and look for her and not mention it at the inquest at all ?
Maybe something very important concerning her or another family member
She made it clear at the inquest that she hasn't wanted anything to do with Kate for a long time....
Eliza seemed confused and Annie guarded

Cheers

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry
Where did this info come from ?
No mention of it by Annie at the inquest I don't think

Hi PS,

Daily News
United Kingdom
4 October 1888

Last night Eliza Gold, or Frost, the sister, who lives at 6, Thrawl-street, Spitalfields, made the following statement. She did this with difficulty, as she is suffering from a serious attack of illness consequent on the sudden discovery of her sister's shocking end. "It was this morning," she said, "when I was called to the mortuary to identify her, poor girl-I never dreamed that she would come to such an end as this, and I can't get over it. I really don't know how old she was, but I am fifty-two, and she was considerably younger. Perhaps she was about forty-two. She was born at Wolverhampton. All of us were born there. She was not married to Conway, but she went to live with him while in London. She has lived here almost all her life. Her name was Catherine Eddowes. Conway was in the army, but I don't know in what regiment. She had two or three children by him. It's rather strange-one of them, the girl that's married, came to me last week and asked me if I had seen anything of her mother. She said it was a very long time since she had seen her; but it was a long time since I had, too, and I told her so. In fact I have not seen her much oftener than once or twice since she has been with Kelly, though we lived so close together. We were not on the best of terms. I think it is only five or six years since Conway left her. Then she got in with Kelly, and I believe she has stuck to him all along. I certainly don't think she ever went out with other men, though I have told you that I did not see much of her. She was always a regular jolly sort, but she would never do anything wrong. I cannot imagine what she was doing in Mitre-square. ["]

[packers stem]

Hi Dave,

Annie was looking for her in Thrawl Street a week before her murder.

Hi Jerry
Where did this info come from ?
No mention of it by Annie at the inquest I don't think

[Batman]

Roll up, roll up, get your coincidences here today. Buy 2, get 1 free. Buy more than 4 and you get a free set of horse blinders to put on.

Something tells me Punch was onto something.

[packers stem]

Annie's Aunt was living at 6 Thrawl Street and knew that her sister was with John Kelly at 55 Flower and Dean Street.
Seems Eddowes was looking after her sister up until her departure to go hopping.
Mary Ann Nichols had been living at 18 Thrawl Street until when she moved next door to Eddowes on 24 August.
Reckon Nichols and Kate knew each other from the London Hospital in December 1867.

Nichols in Flower and Dean is an error
Her address on the death certificate is 35 Dorset street ...... same as Chapman

[jerryd]

Annie's Aunt was living at 6 Thrawl Street and knew that her sister was with John Kelly at 55 Flower and Dean Street.
Seems Eddowes was looking after her sister up until her departure to go hopping.
Curious.

Yes. It was her sister Eliza Gold that spoke to Annie in Thrawl Street and made that claim.

[DJA]

Hi Dave,

Annie was looking for her in Thrawl Street a week before her murder.

Annie's Aunt was living at 6 Thrawl Street and knew that her sister was with John Kelly at 55 Flower and Dean Street.
Seems Eddowes was looking after her sister up until her departure to go hopping.
Mary Ann Nichols had been living at 18 Thrawl Street until when she moved next door to Eddowes on 24 August.
Reckon Nichols and Kate knew each other from the London Hospital in December 1867.

[jerryd]

Her only daughter,Annie Phillips,had moved over two years prior and Eddowes had no idea where she was living.

Hi Dave,

Annie was looking for her in Thrawl Street a week before her murder.

[DJA]

Heading for London Bridge, on her way to Bermondsey, to her daughters?

Her only daughter,Annie Phillips,had moved over two years prior and Eddowes had no idea where she was living.

[Batman]

Yet it was raining on Lawende until 1.30

You can read the weather for the day. It was 100% overcast all day and the rains suddenly started around 22:00 and was extremely heavy and sudden. Whether it stayed that way constantly or not is really the question.

[packers stem]

Pc Smith from the Stride inquest (Times 6 Oct);

When did it last rain before 1 o'clock? -To the best of my recollection, it rained very little after 11 o'clock.

Yet it was raining on Lawende until 1.30

[Joshua Rogan]

From the Eddowes inquest, Kate's daughter Annie's evidence;

"Did your mother ever apply to you for money? - Yes.
[Coroner] When did you last see her? - Two years and one month ago.
[Coroner] Where did you live when you last saw her? - In King-street, Bermondsey.
[Coroner] Have you any brothers or sisters by Conway? - Two brothers.
[Coroner] Where are they living? - In London.
[Coroner] Did your mother know where to find either of you? - No.
[Coroner] Were your addresses purposely kept from her? - Yes.
[Coroner] To prevent her applying for money."