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Eddowes in Wandsworth Prison

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  • Eddowes in Wandsworth Prison

    On the 17th August, 1878, a Catherine Conway or Eddowes, a laundress aged 37, was sentenced at Southwark to 7 days in Wandsworth Prison for being 'drunk in a thoro'fare'. Under 'Other Marks' was recorded:

    "Scar forehead from blow & right eyelid from cut. Lost two front teeth upper jaw."

    2 previous convictions were noted, the most recent being:

    "6.8.77 3 days"


    On 6th August, 1877 a 36-year-old washerwoman named Kate Eddowes, was convicted at Lambeth of 'Drunk &c'. She received a 14 day sentence which she served in Wandsworth with her unnamed child. Under 'Other Marks' was recorded:

    'Scar right eyebrow'.

    13 previous convictions were noted, the most recent being:

    "23.8.76 3 Mo"


    There are a few discrepancies between the two records, not least being the number of previous convictions, but I think this is likely to be 'our' Kate Eddowes.
    Last edited by MrBarnett; 03-09-2018, 06:35 AM.

  • #2
    I don't think there is any doubt that you found 'our' Catherine Eddowes in both cases, Gary?
    The unnamed child you mention tallies well with Catherine giving birth to a son named Frederick Willliam in 1877.
    ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

    I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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    • #3
      What a remarkable find!
      - Ginger

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Debra A View Post
        I don't think there is any doubt that you found 'our' Catherine Eddowes in both cases, Gary?
        The unnamed child you mention tallies well with Catherine giving birth to a son named Frederick Willliam in 1877.
        Hi Debs,

        There's no doubt in my mind. The thing that bugs me, though, is the discrepancy between the 13 and 2 previous convictions.

        As you say, the child who entered Wandsworth with her must have been the infant Frederick.

        Gary

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        • #5
          Nice work.

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          • #6
            Very sweet find.

            Thanks for sharing.
            G U T

            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

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            • #7
              Good stuff!

              If I stare for long enough at Foster's mortuary sketches, I can almost convince myself that they show what might be an inch-long scar touching the outside of Kate's right eyebrow.

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              • #8
                Very nice! These little things all help us learn more about Jack's victims, and understand them better.
                Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                ---------------
                Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                ---------------

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                  Hi Debs,

                  There's no doubt in my mind. The thing that bugs me, though, is the discrepancy between the 13 and 2 previous convictions.

                  As you say, the child who entered Wandsworth with her must have been the infant Frederick.

                  Gary
                  Hi Gary
                  I mentioned Charlotte Eddowes on forums because I wondered if there was some sort of confusion of the two women regarding previous records and convictions? It's probably unlikely but the two women do have things in common. Both were arrested for public order offences in the street, one in Lambeth one in Southwark. Charlotte was the same age as Catherine and although more petite; Charlotte also had a letter tattooed on her left arm and a scar (which I can't determine the exact whereabouts of...it looks like it says scar on her cherry!). Charlotte was sent to convicted one month before Catherine in 1878 and also in 1876.

                  I was wondering if there was a chance that officials flicking through registers for previous court appearances maybe Charlotte's previous tally brought Eddowes up or down? Looking at Charlotte's convictions though she has 3, so the confusion idea maybe doesn't follow...
                  Last edited by Debra A; 03-10-2018, 01:31 AM.
                  ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                  I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                    Hi Gary
                    I mentioned Charlotte Eddowes on forums because I wondered if there was some sort of confusion of the two women regarding previous records and convictions? It's probably unlikely but the two women do have things in common. Both were arrested for public order offences in the street, one in Lambeth one in Southwark. Charlotte was the same age as Catherine and although more petite; Charlotte also had a letter tattooed on her left arm and a scar (which I can't determine the exact whereabouts of...it looks like it says scar on her cherry!). Charlotte was sent to convicted one month before Catherine in 1878 and also in 1876.

                    I was wondering if there was a chance that officials flicking through registers for previous court appearances maybe Charlotte's previous tally brought Eddowes up or down? Looking at Charlotte's convictions though she has 3, so the confusion idea maybe doesn't follow...
                    Hi Debs,

                    It's possible, I suppose, but Charlotte was recorded as 'Buckingham or Eddows' and as you say she was a smaller woman with a scar on her right cheek (I hope!) and something else on her left arm. (Is that a T for tattoo or an S for scar?). Presumably the previous convictions info came via the court.

                    I did wonder whether the Conway/Eddowes confusion might have lead to Kate's tally being understated in '78.

                    Gary

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                      Hi Debs,

                      It's possible, I suppose, but Charlotte was recorded as 'Buckingham or Eddows' and as you say she was a smaller woman with a scar on her right cheek (I hope!) and something else on her left arm. (Is that a T for tattoo or an S for scar?). Presumably the previous convictions info came via the court.

                      I did wonder whether the Conway/Eddowes confusion might have lead to Kate's tally being understated in '78.

                      Gary
                      The 1876 conviction for Charlotte looked like it described a 'scar on right cherry'!
                      It also said she had a 'letter S' on her left arm. I imagine that the 'letter' would be a tattoo similar to Catherine's 'TC'
                      Charlotte had 3 previous conviction in 76 but doesn't seem to have any recorded in 78 so maybe they just weren't that reliable at recording everything previous accurately?
                      Last edited by Debra A; 03-10-2018, 03:21 AM.
                      ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                      I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                        The 1876 conviction for Charlotte looked like it described a 'scar on right cherry'!
                        It also said she had a 'letter S' on her left arm. I imagine that the 'letter' would be a tattoo similar to Catherine's 'TC'
                        Charlotte had 3 previous conviction in 76 but doesn't seem to have any recorded in 78 so maybe they just weren't that reliable at recording everything previous accurately?
                        Yes, it definitely says 'cherry' - strange!

                        As I mentioned elsewhere, Thomas Fogarty's previous is inconsistently recorded in the Wandsworth registers. 12 in 1897, then 6 in April, 1899. He's back again in July, 1899, a mere week after being released, and no previous is recorded. You'd think they might have remembered him - just how many vicious blind beggars did they lock up each week?

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                        • #13
                          It's always cheek except for the cherry entry, so that must be cheek too - unless she was attacked by the Phantom Raspberry Blower.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Robert View Post
                            It's always cheek except for the cherry entry, so that must be cheek too - unless she was attacked by the Phantom Raspberry Blower.
                            Her complexion was described as 'ruddy', so it was a ruddy cheek.

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                            • #15
                              Gary
                              It's a shame that the only surviving photograph albums for Wandsworth prison are from 1872 and 73 otherwise there may have been a photograph of Catherine Eddowes in them.
                              I wonder if there's a tiny chance she may be if one of those two volumes if her one of her possible 13 previous convictions was in either of those two years and she was also imprisoned in Wandsworth at that time?

                              I've recently seen photograph albums from Oxford Goal in the 1870's and the quality of the photographs was amazing. Half the photographs were of children, which was quite sad to see.
                              ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                              I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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