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  • Where was she?

    Where was Annie Chapman between around 1.35am and 5:30am (if it is believed that this was the time she was murdered?)

    What happened to Annie in those 'missing' four hours? Was she just wandering around? Actively soliciting? Sleeping rough somewhere? Alone or with someone? Its all a bit of mystery. Of course all we can do is speculate I suppose?

    But any thoughts are most welcome.

    Best Regards,

    Tristan

  • #2
    Was there not a rumour about a late drink at the 10 bells that didn’t finish until 5am? Pubs were suppose to close at midnight, but I believe many pubs defied the law on the odd occasion if business was brisk.
    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
    JayHartley.com

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    • #3
      This is something I have often wondered about, I am sure a lot of pubs had 'lock ins' on a fairly regular basis!
      Best Regards,

      Tristan

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      • #4
        Whilst I'm sure there were places that served after-hours drinks to those in the know, I believe that the Ten Bells, along with other pubs in the vicinity, was allowed to open very early in the morning for the benefit of market workers.
        ​​​​​​
        There are slightly more extensive reports, this is from the Times 10 Sept;

        "No corroboration of the reported statement that she was served in a publichouse at Spitalfields Market on its opening at 5 a.m. could be gained"

        I'm pretty sure there are a couple of others that I can't find right now mentioning her being called outside by a man in a skull cap, but also reports of the landlord and barmaid being unable to confirm or remember this happening.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
          Whilst I'm sure there were places that served after-hours drinks to those in the know, I believe that the Ten Bells, along with other pubs in the vicinity, was allowed to open very early in the morning for the benefit of market workers.
          ​​​​​​
          There are slightly more extensive reports, this is from the Times 10 Sept;

          "No corroboration of the reported statement that she was served in a publichouse at Spitalfields Market on its opening at 5 a.m. could be gained"

          I'm pretty sure there are a couple of others that I can't find right now mentioning her being called outside by a man in a skull cap, but also reports of the landlord and barmaid being unable to confirm or remember this happening.
          Thanks for this Joshua. really interesting stuff. Four hours seems like a long time just to be wondering about the streets, especially if you are ill as Annie was supposed to be. What you highlight could explain why/how she could have been looking for a punter so early in the morning i.e. someone how has just finished work for the day/night.
          Best Regards,

          Tristan

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          • #6
            Coroner] Was there any appearance of the deceased having taken much alcohol? - No. There were probably signs of great privation. I am convinced she had not taken any strong alcohol for some hours before her death.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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            • #7
              Originally posted by erobitha View Post
              Was there not a rumour about a late drink at the 10 bells that didn’t finish until 5am? Pubs were suppose to close at midnight, but I believe many pubs defied the law on the odd occasion if business was brisk.
              A restaurant just down the street from me was recently shut down by local authorities for serving alcohol at 5 AM: where I live, it is illegal to serve alcohol after 2 AM. This was not discovered until an inebriated patron shot another inebriated patron in the parking lot of the establishment. Just knowing humans, I'm sure this kind of thing happened in 1880's London as well.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DJA View Post
                Coroner] Was there any appearance of the deceased having taken much alcohol? - No. There were probably signs of great privation. I am convinced she had not taken any strong alcohol for some hours before her death.
                Very interesting. Any thoughts on those lost hours DJA?

                Best Regards,

                Tristan

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                • #9
                  Not really.
                  She was very ill,probably keeping warm and begging if there was anyone about.
                  Suspect Jack was staying at a nearby hotel on Hanbury Street.
                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DJA View Post
                    Coroner] Was there any appearance of the deceased having taken much alcohol? - No. There were probably signs of great privation. I am convinced she had not taken any strong alcohol for some hours before her death.
                    How could a coroner categorically state that with the bladder missing? Does anyone know of a post-mortem procedure or test used in that era that could confirm no alcohol had been consumed?

                    HR in her book references a letter Miriam Smith wrote to the Pall Mall Gazette in 1889 detailing her sister Annie’s problems with alcohol over the years. I find it psychologically unlikely that if she was a functioning alcoholic that she would not be looking for drink somewhere.
                    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                    JayHartley.com

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                      HR in her book references a letter Miriam Smith wrote to the Pall Mall Gazette in 1889 detailing her sister Annie’s problems with alcohol over the years. I find it psychologically unlikely that if she was a functioning alcoholic that she would not be looking for drink somewhere.
                      Inquisitively I looked up the letter HR referenced. All I could find was an article that referenced a letter which claimed it was from Annie's sister. So it is in effect third hand information, but does make for compelling reading. Maybe the start of the gossip pages? The reference to John Chapman's death checks out and Annie's son who survived was a cripple (their words).

                      Pall Mall Gazette - Wednesday 01 May 1889 (Page 6)

                      THE LIFE HISTORY OF A WHITECHAPEL VICTIM
                      A STRANGE BUT TRUE TALE

                      In his speech at Presbyterian School yesterday evening the Rev. John MacNeill created quite a sensation by telling the following tale : He was speaking of temperance, and said that last Sunday (when he preached a temperance sermon at the Tabernacle), he received a letter that had been written by a lady on the danger of the use at communnion of fermented wine. The lady in her letter told a sad story of an inherited passion for drink. There were four or five of them, several brothers and two sisters, the children of intemperate parents. Her sister had unfortunately inherited the craving, and before she was fourteen had taken to drink. The others became converted and did all in their power to cure their sister; but it was of no use. The sister at length married comfortably, and children were born. But the craving for drink grew greater and greater, and at length she was sent to a home for inebriates, where she stayed for a year. She left apparently, said the sister, a changed woman. Soon after, however, her husband caught a severe cold, and before going out one morning drank a glass of hot whiskey - taking care, however, not to do so in the presence of his wife. Then, as was his custom, before leaving kissed his wife. At once the fumes of alcohol passed into her, and in an hour she was a drunk and roaring woman. She went from worse to worse, and at last left her husband and her children, one of them a cripple, through her drunkenness. The husband died two years ago, a white-haired and broken hearted man, though only forty-five years old. "Need I add," said the sister in her letter, "what became of her? Her story is that of Annie Chapman, one of the recent Whitechapel victims. That was my sister;".



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                      Last edited by erobitha; 03-10-2021, 08:59 PM.
                      Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                      JayHartley.com

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