No Bloody Piece of Apron

[Barnaby]

Would the uterus really have been drenched in blood? I understand that there might be some blood on it, but would it hold enough blood to actually ruin clothing that probably already was soiled and stained?

[Doctor X]

Would the uterus really have been drenched in blood? I understand that there might be some blood on it, but would it hold enough blood to actually ruin clothing that probably already was soiled and stained?

Exactly.

Your answer is--not.

--J.D.

[caz]

Hi Barnaby,

I think a quick wipe and/or wrap would absorb most of the 'gunk', and I doubt the freshly removed organs would pong much either, otherwise every trip home from the butcher's shop would be a perilous, messy and smelly business, not to say an embarrassing one.

A large and shi**y apron piece, however, from a woman you have just slaughtered like a pig in a market, is a slightly different matter, I should have thought. So I really can't see even the most moronic offender wiping all the way to Goulston for wiping's sake alone. If he's wiping to get rid of the mess and the smell, the cloth ensures both will remain with him until he finally discards it.

It's the only physical clue he left away from the murder scenes, and since he spared the time in Mitre Square to cut her face (for reasons only he can fathom), then the fact that he spared the time to cut her pinny there too seems indicative of reasons that go beyond a simple wiping operation.

Love,

Caz
X

[Natalie Severn]

I think the scenario described by Caz is perfectly feasible.However,even though there were apparently smears of faeces on Kate"s intestines which could indicate the faeces was from the victim it is also very common for the perpetrator to sh*t themselves with all the fright and excitement. So I believe there could other scenarios.A planner which I believe Jack was,must have had a few cloths up his sleeve to cover eventualities such as bloody hands/gloves and so the apron piece, which I understand was pretty big,could have been cut/torn for a reason not covered by his pre-planning.Either that or it was done with the intention of leaving a message about these murder with the cut piece of her apron that police would "match up" later.So my other guess is that if he did have an "accident" he would probably have shinnied off to the nearest hidy hole to clean himself up.And he waited there ,for the all clear, before he popped his makeshift cleaning cloth into the nearest doorway on his way home.
Best
Natalie

[Doctor X]

I am unaware of the commonality of murderers defecating during the act.

No need to create a more complicated scenario than that indicated by the observations.

--J.D.

[Natalie Severn]

I am unaware of the commonality of murderers defecating during the act.

No need to create a more complicated scenario than that indicated by the observations.

--J.D.

Well there is an abundance of evidence from various crime scenes of this being a common "bi-product" of crimes that involve high risk.
The idea came to me after reading Trevor Marriots theory about Kate using it for her period,which I definitely dont hold with,since no poverty stricken person like Kate would tear their one and only apron up and use it as a pad-particularly as she had twelve rags or small "pads" found in her pockets.
Natalie

[caz]

Hi Nats,

Possible of course. But would the 'nearest hidy hole' really be as far removed from Mitre Square, and the scene of this childish accident, as Goulston Street? It's a long way to carry such a large bit of bog roll, while sporting squelchy, foul-smelling undercrackers.

Love,

Caz
X

[Natalie Severn]

Caz,you should have been a comdedienne-some of your lines are priceless!

Anyway-he must have hid somewhere for the unaccounted for hour that elapsed.Why not the rear of the building,struggling to clean up---maybe surfacing into Goulston Street only to see some copper appear,whereupon he dives into the dwelling house waits a few minutes ,dumps the half apron piece in the hallway and walks off whistling?
Nats

[Mike Covell]

Hi Nats,

Possible of course. But would the 'nearest hidy hole' really be as far removed from Mitre Square, and the scene of this childish accident, as Goulston Street? It's a long way to carry such a large bit of bog roll, while sporting squelchy, foul-smelling undercrackers.

Love,

Caz
X

In practical terms it would be difficult, may years ago I was trapped on a golfcourse, miles from civilisation and "Needed to go"
We were camping and carrying out a 30 mile hike!!
I did my business and made an attempt to wide the affected areas, but it slowed me down, made things sore, and when I found the nearest B+B I paid a fortune for a hot bath!!

I suppose being a foul smelling individual wouldn't have made him stand out as many were involved in the "Manure Trade", coincidently Richard Stephenson was a Manure Merchant in Hull, his son was Robert D'Onston stephenson, who many would describe as a little S*%T!

[Doctor X]

Well there is an abundance of evidence from various crime scenes of this being a common "bi-product" of crimes that involve high risk.

Such as?

--J. "You Can't . . . You Can't Dust for Vomit" D.

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks for the plain speaking here Mike.I think it demonstrates the difficulty and discomfort that he "could" have been in after such a high risk double event [ thats if you accept a double event].Two events in less than an hour with police running all over Whitechapel like a rash.We dont know how near he got to being caught in either place but my guess is that it was a close shave in both events.
It did occur to me though that the chalked message could have been about him realising suddenly that his "interrupted "throat cut" murder outside the Jewish club might look as though it was done by one of the Jews who went there.So he takes the apron,cuts it in half and says "look-the proof ,it is I ,the one you call "the Ripper" who did BOTH these murders tonight ---so dont go blaming the Jews for them -they are both all my own work and I am giving you this clue- go match up the apron piece!"
Best
Natalie

[Carrotty Nell]

For example.....what if Kates killer wasn't an East End resident, but wanted to leave the impression he was? Could that delay, if the piece wasn't there at the first pass after the murder, be time that he used to rid himself of incriminating things, discover that a woman was killed earlier, and perhaps devise a sly way to convince them The East End killer did this one too.

Some very good ideas. Earlier it was also suggested it might have been a message for Mary. But what about the Goulston Street tenement block itself? Has it occurred to anyone that it could be the tenement block which is significant, and not just because it is inhabited by Jews. Lots of places are inhabited by Jews. Rothschild buildings or the step of the Great Synagogue would be even more significant if you just want to implicate the Jews. What if someone lives in the Goulston Street tenement block who is important to our killer? A woman who had dumped him for instance and broken his heart.

[Natalie Severn]

Such as?

--J. "You Can't . . . You Can't Dust for Vomit" D.

Such as ------I cant name any off hand, Doc, but there are several ex-policemen on the boards who would confirm that it happens quite often.
Natalie

[Doctor X]

Such as ------I cant name any off hand, Doc, but there are several ex-policemen on the boards who would confirm that it happens quite often.

I am unaware of that happening with a serial killer. Nevertheless, Jacks "dooky" would go--on a cold London night--where?

Unless . . . he . . . found the time to strip naked prior to killing the victim . . . which would, somehow go unnoticed?

The feculence came from the the fact the victims bowels were violated. It is a common complication of violating bowels.

--J.D.

[steje73]

I can only assume that's true, having never personally violated a bowel.