How dark was "Dark Annie"?

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

Although this is not totally relevant to the thread, I just stumbled across this as I was trawling through the press reports and thought it too interesting not to post somewhere.

I will have a look through some contemporary British reports to see if I can find the term 'black' being used to describe in the UK Afro Caribbean people, rather than 'dark', so hopefully this still is on topic.

I went cold when I read this report.

El Cronista
Mexico
9 November 1888

A London newspaper, The Daily News, has received a telegram from New York which throws some light on the antecedents of the mysterious London assassin.

The telegram says that some months ago there occurred in the state of Texas a horrible series of murders of women.

The victims were nearly all black, and because of this the sensation was not that great. The murderer operated in the same way as the one in London and performed the same mutilations.

Don't you just love it.

It's interesting how references to Afro Caribbeans have changed in the UK over the years.

My nan and grandad always used to call Afro Caribbeans 'darkies'. I'm fairly certain that a lot of East Enders called them that back in the LVP, as Nan and Grandad gave the impression it was something that was very common and passed down from their parents.

It wasn't used as a derogatory term really, just as a means of identification. It was more or less used in the same way that you would say 'Scot' or 'Irish'. There was always a sort of bemusement when they used it - not animosity, just a sort of curiousity and the feeling that they were a bit mysterious and exotic. It was actually common practice to 'wish on a black man' because they thought it was good luck. There's nought at queer as folk. Lol.

In the 1960s when immigration to the UK started, then the usual term was 'coloureds' - and I won't go any further because we all know what happened after that.

I obviously, sincerely apologise to any Afro Caribbeans reading this - none of this is meant to be derogatory, it's just a bit of UK history.

If I find any 1888 UK newspapers using the term 'dark' or 'black' I'll post them up.

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

[curious4]

Dark Annie

OK, in the face of all opposition I shall gracefully retire.

Just remembered where I heard this. It was a tv programme (serious) with Eddy(?) Izzard, can´t the remember the exact name but it was something to do with "how english are the english".

Regards,
C4

[The Grave Maurice]

We have photos of Annie in life and death, and the only dark thing about her is her hair. Her skin tone is pale in both. The soubriquet must have come from one of the suggestions made by Archaic. I have a first cousin who is 6'6" and has always been called Shorty. As Don says, you can't always explain nicknames logically.

[Celesta]

Hi Archie,

Ahhhh, but you see, it involves Pyramids....


Oh, I almost forgot. Who provided the name 'Dark Annie' in the first place? I've been looking back over the material for that but haven't tripped over it yet.

[Archaic]

Hi Cel.

I just read your post, and the coincidence of this thread with your signature line "Why is it so dark in here?" made me laugh... So what exactly do you mean by that??

Cheers,
Archaic

[Celesta]

Chapman is described as: "complexion far, hair (wavy) dark brown, eye blue..." according to Inspector Chandler. He says nothing about being "dark", or brown, or black, other than the hair.

Annie was a street person, often enough, and street people are known for having their own slang. The name "Dark Annie" may have had some slang meaning similar to what was suggested earlier, perhaps as a nickname for one who slept "rough," or some other permutation of the word 'dark.'

[Supe]

Archaic,

Seems to me that you have already given this misbegotten thread a lot more scholarly attention than it deserves, for which you are to be commended.

Divining the derivation of nicknamese is ever fraught with difficulty and nigh unto impossible without the sworn testimony of the initial bestower of the sobriquet.

As an example, debate continues as to whether Christopher Marlowe's nickname of "Kind Kit" was in genuine appreciation for an ever-giving nature, or a snide commentary about a personality quite the opposite. How are we to know today?

As an example of the strangeness of nicknames consider the following tale, albeit anecdotal. I grew up in town, and lots of ball, with a quartet of brothers. Three of those brothers early on presented heads so bald they would have made a cue ball seem hirsute in comparison. The fourth brother, however, still has a healthy head of hair. Yet, he is known far and wide as "Baldy." Nor is that name, as those unfamiliar with his history might believe, a joke upon the plight of his brothers. Rather, as a wee bairn he got a buzz-cut so short that his peers immediately dubbed him "Baldy" and that name stuck.

You just don't know about nicknames and, as Archaic has shown, to believe in the literalness of them in order to prove some notion is a waste of time.

Don.

[Archaic]

Complexion and Literary References to "Dark Woman"

Hi everyone.

The question of complexion has been raised, and there are a number of illnesses that can affect the color of one's skin. One of my favorite authors, Jane Austen, suffered for years from a chronic illness that turned her normally fair skin "very brown" according to her niece and others. It probably gave her a somewhat 'tawny' appearance, which would have been noticeable in the days when the beauty ideal was lily-white skin. Jane continued to write, but became increasingly debilitated and died at the age of 41. Her illness is believed to have been a serious adrenal disorder called Addison's Disease. One of its side effects is a darkening of the skin. This website discusses Jane's illness: http://www.orchard-gate.com/bmj.htm Annie is believed to have suffered from Tuberculosis and possibly Syphilis. Apparently Addison's Disease can develop in the wake of chronic Tuberculosis, but as far as I know no darkening of the skin or brown patches were noted after Annie's death.

As for the question of racial heritage, people in the 1880's weren't as polite as we are now. In England, people of African descent were usually referred to as "Negro", "coloured", "African", "Ethiopian" ,"black" and - unfortunately, very commonly- "n****r". Individuals of 1/2 African & 1/2 Caucasian descent were called "Mulatto". Individuals of 1/4 African descent & 3/4 Caucasian descent were called "Octoroons". (If you've ever read Thackeray's 'Vanity Fair', he uses all of these terms.)

I found a couple of Victorian literary references to the phrase "dark woman" and "dark complexion" that might help to put Mrs. Richardson's words in context.
(I simply chose the first references that came up, and they happen to have very similar meanings.)

From ‘The Mill On the Floss’ by George Eliot:
"I didn't finish the book," said Maggie. "As soon as I came to the blond-haired young lady reading in the park, I shut it up, and determined to read no further. I foresaw that that light-complexioned girl would win away all the love from Corinne and make her miserable. I'm determined to read no more books where the blond-haired women carry away all the happiness. I should begin to have a prejudice against them. If you could give me some story, now, where the dark woman triumphs, it would restore the balance.”

From an 1888 Beauty Book:
"Colors that Suit Different Complexions- Two distinct types of complexion exist among the white race, namely, the light-haired, fair and ruddy complexions, termed Blondes; and the dark-haired and dark-skinned, called Brunettes. Between these are several intermediate tints and shades, all requiring much close observation to fully discriminate as to the colors most suitable to be worn, to harmonize with the different shades of complexion. Investigation has proven that the light-haired and rosy-cheeked, with red or golden hair and ruddy complexion, require certain colors in headdress and drapery to harmonize; and the same is true of the dark complexion, with dark hair and eyebrows."

So it appears that in the 1880's the phrase "the dark woman" typically referred to a Caucasian brunette. As Annie was described as having "very dark brown hair", in my opinion this is probably the reason she was referred to as "the dark woman". Because Annie was so ill and was described by Amelia Palmer as being downcast and having "given way altogether" after the loss of her husband and children, I think it's possible that the adjective "dark" might also have carried connotations of "discouragement" or "melancholia".

Best regards,
Archaic

[Errata]

One of Sutcliffe's victims was known as 'Scottish Mary' probably to distinguish her from other Marys. I always thought 'Dark Annie' had that name because her hair was dark and there were many Annies. I just don't get the impression that her associates were interested in her describing her character as part of her name.

As for 'Black Mary Kelly', so we have any contemporary reference for that name??

I always rather thought that "Dark Annie" was more comparative than descriptive. As opposed to Fair Annie, Fat Annie, Little Annie etc. Not a name that one would spontaneously give her, but within her circle it would be a known descriptive.

Could Mary Kelly have been Black Irish? Her eye color remains constant in description but her hair color changes. If it were in fact auburn instead of blond or red, that would qualify.

[curious4]

Dark Annie

O.K. shouldn´t make assertions I can´t back up - but there were many black people in London in the eighteenth century:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/p...tionships.htmh and it is quite possíble for a person of mixed race to have blue eyes.

She could well have had a grandparent or great-grandparent who was black.

Regards,

C4

[Chava]

One of Sutcliffe's victims was known as 'Scottish Mary' probably to distinguish her from other Marys. I always thought 'Dark Annie' had that name because her hair was dark and there were many Annies. I just don't get the impression that her associates were interested in her describing her character as part of her name.

As for 'Black Mary Kelly', so we have any contemporary reference for that name??

[Archaic]

Definitions of "Dark" In Victorian Dictionaries

Hi everyone. I've collected a number of contemporary definitions of Victorian phrases that occur in Ripper studies, and I've been planning to post them on a new thread when I have time. But since a question as to the meaning of the term "dark" has popped up here and it's one of the phrases I already researched, I thought I might as well post the definitions I found.

According to numerous Victorian dictionaries, the term "dark" had a wealth of meanings.

"Dark" could mean "dark-haired". If there were two women named Annie, one with lighter hair and one with darker hair, they might be called "Fair Annie" and "Dark Annie" by their neighbors simply to differentiate them. In this case "dark" could simply mean "brown-haired". Nicknames were very common in the East End, and they were needed when so many people had the same name. (For example, Annie, Liz and Mary were all extremely common names, and each of the victims so named had multiple nicknames that were used by their friends and neighbors.)

In Victorian slang, "Dark" could mean any of the following:

-Tawny-skinned and tanned from exposure to the elements

- Sullen, Morose, Gloomy, Sorrowful, Discouraged, Dismal, Melancholy, Frowning, Cheerless, Despondent

- Unenlightened, irreligious, "morally dark"

- Of unknown origins and unproven ability (as in "a dark horse")

- One who slept rough "in dark entries and under arches", as among vagrants


Hope this helps. The English language and archaic slang is kind of a hobby of mine.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Steven Russell]

Hello Steve,

Yup, but shouldn't then it have been " the dark-haired woman" as opposed to "the dark woman?".

best wishes

Phil

Not necessarily. I can certainly remember older relatives of mine saying things like "that dark girl" meaning a white girl with dark hair. They would have undoubtedly referred to someone with dark skin in more politically incorrect terms or, at best, as being "swarthy". I think the old phrase, "tall, dark, and handsome" also refers to hair colour rather than skin pigmentation but this is just a guess.

Kensei may have a point; wasn't Mary Kelly also known as "Black Mary"? Being a redhead, she probably had very fair skin.

Perhaps, Kensei, we should also bear in mind that on occasion, Annie's poor health could be mistaken for drunkenness or at least make her appear more drunk than she was.

As for Annie being of mixed race, I would think her blue eyes would argue against this.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Lechmere]

"I remember reading somewhere that in the 18th century there were as many black people as white in London"
Clearly that wasn't true. There were some but a tiny number - as seem in the many crowd scene cartoons etc.

[curious4]

Dark Annie

I remember reading somewhere that in the 18th century there were as many black people as white in London (not trying to be racist here) so perhaps Annie was mixed race?

Regards,
C4