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    Hi,

    When we compare signature, victimology and modus operandi we often tend to try and find similarities between the victims.

    But if we try and find specific traits of the murders instead, what would we see?

    Today is 8 September. Letīs try with the murder of Annie Chapman.

    What can we observe in the case of Annie Chapman that we can not in all or some of the others?

    What specific historical facts can we establish for the signature, victimology and/or modus operandi regarding the murder of Chapman?

    In what way(s) was this murder specific?

    Regards, Pierre

  • #2
    Why don't you be specific and name your suspect?

    Comment


    • #3
      Patsy Cline's Birthday. 8th September. Sign of Virgo.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MysterySinger View Post
        Patsy Cline's Birthday. 8th September. Sign of Virgo.
        Sign of the killer.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
          Why don't you be specific and name your suspect?
          Because he hasn't got one.
          G U T

          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi

            Had to think long and hard about replying to this TODAY.

            But my feelings of anger, finally over come my feelings of morality and what is right.

            Considering todays date, in my view the only threads about Annie should have been those paying respect and yes there is one.

            This thread, posted today is inappropriate, it could have waited until tomorrow Pierre.


            steve

            Comment


            • #7
              Well said, Steve.
              dustymiller
              aka drstrange


              "Whenever an expert says something that bolsters the Lechmere theory, it is not my task to disprove him ..."
              Fisherman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                Hi

                Had to think long and hard about replying to this TODAY.

                But my feelings of anger, finally over come my feelings of morality and what is right.

                Considering todays date, in my view the only threads about Annie should have been those paying respect and yes there is one.

                This thread, posted today is inappropriate, it could have waited until tomorrow Pierre.


                steve
                Agree

                In fact I wouldny mind if on those five (or so) days only respect posts were allowed.

                But I personally don't think Pierre has Morals.
                G U T

                There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What's different about the Chapman murder?

                  - Arguably the most skillful mutilations. I am not one of those Casebook posters who hangs onto every word choice made by a doctor in 1888, but to the extent that doctors who examined the victims were impressed by the mutilations, they were most impressed by the Chapman mutilations.

                  - An attempt was apparently made to remove the head. I'm not 100% convinced of this, but people make the claim.

                  Those are the two big ones I could think of: and IMO the first one is likely tied to the fact that Chapman may have been murdered in daylight. Everything else I can think of about the Chapman murder is non-unique.

                  She is not the only victim to lose a uterus (Eddowes also)
                  She is not the only victim to have two throat cuts (Nichols also)
                  She is not the only victim to have her intestine thrown over her shoulder (Eddowes also)
                  She is not the only victim where we have witnesses potentially seeing the killer with the victim, or potentially hearing the start of the attack

                  Not sure what Pierre was going for - but this was my attempt to play it straight and answer the question he was literally asking.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "- An attempt was apparently made to remove the head. I'm not 100% convinced of this, but people make the claim."

                    Her TB had spread to her head.
                    Dr Phillips commented that an uncommon instrument,like a post mortem knife,may have been used.
                    Um....who would want her head and used a post mortem knife?
                    Perhaps someone who walked home along Hanbury street during the week....right past Dr Phillips residence in Spital Square.
                    Someone he knew even.
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                      Hi,

                      When we compare signature, victimology and modus operandi we often tend to try and find similarities between the victims.

                      But if we try and find specific traits of the murders instead, what would we see?

                      Today is 8 September. Letīs try with the murder of Annie Chapman.

                      What can we observe in the case of Annie Chapman that we can not in all or some of the others?

                      What specific historical facts can we establish for the signature, victimology and/or modus operandi regarding the murder of Chapman?

                      In what way(s) was this murder specific?

                      Regards, Pierre
                      No no Pierre. Please try again. We are not pupils and you are not the teacher.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Now its the the 9th I will make some comments.

                        This obviously is not a new idea for Pierre, which actual reinforces the point I made yesterday.

                        You see in April Pierre posted the below, it seems as long ago as that he was suggesting that Annie's murder had supplied him with some important information.
                        Fortunately no one responded, it must have been frustrating


                        Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                        This is not the Memorial Day of Annie Chapman.

                        But this day I really think of her and I say:

                        Thank you for everything, Annie Chapman.

                        Regards, Pierre



                        There can be only a few reasons for this post, including possibly a personal connect, or more probably a belief there is evidence at the site which has been missed or misinterpreted by all by himself.


                        I would suggest we all wait to see what the Pierre says and not feed him views.


                        respectfully


                        Steve

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Damaso Marte View Post
                          What's different about the Chapman murder?

                          - Arguably the most skillful mutilations. I am not one of those Casebook posters who hangs onto every word choice made by a doctor in 1888, but to the extent that doctors who examined the victims were impressed by the mutilations, they were most impressed by the Chapman mutilations.

                          - An attempt was apparently made to remove the head. I'm not 100% convinced of this, but people make the claim.

                          Those are the two big ones I could think of: and IMO the first one is likely tied to the fact that Chapman may have been murdered in daylight. Everything else I can think of about the Chapman murder is non-unique.

                          She is not the only victim to lose a uterus (Eddowes also)
                          She is not the only victim to have two throat cuts (Nichols also)
                          She is not the only victim to have her intestine thrown over her shoulder (Eddowes also)
                          She is not the only victim where we have witnesses potentially seeing the killer with the victim, or potentially hearing the start of the attack

                          Not sure what Pierre was going for - but this was my attempt to play it straight and answer the question he was literally asking.
                          Hi,

                          So, if the doctors thought the mutilations on Chapman were skillful, that was something for the killer to be proud of when he read about it in the newspapers.

                          Chapman is also the only victim where there was another victim killed on the same day, on the one-year anniversary of Annie Chapman's death.

                          One must understand that the killer read the newspapers, where he learned a lot about the victims as well as about what people thought about the murders.

                          Regards, Pierre

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            While it's tempting to think about what the killer thought of the press coverage, we have no way of knowing that.

                            If the Ripper had medical training, he might have been alarmed when the press and police spoke of his mutilations as "skillful" - afraid that now the police might come barking down the right path.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                              Chapman is also the only victim where there was another victim killed on the same day, on the one-year anniversary of Annie Chapman's death.
                              How are you in a position to make such a categoric statement Pierre?

                              The body of an unknown woman was found in the early hours of Tuesday 10 September 1889.

                              According to Monro, in a report dated 11 September 1889, 'the state of the body itself showed that death took place about 36 hours or more previously. This, then enables me to say that the woman was made away with probably on Sunday night, the 8th September.' (bold added).

                              So Monro could not be certain of the day that the victim was killed.

                              Nor could Dr Phillips because in his report dated 12 September 1889, he said that 'Death probably occurred within 24 to 36 hours before remains were found.'

                              This means that death probably occurred on either Sunday 8 September OR Monday 9 September.

                              When it came to the inquest on 24 September 1889, Dr Phillips' assistant narrowed down the time of death even further by saying that on his examination of the body at 6am on 10 September, 'I should think the body had been dead about 24 hours'.

                              If he was correct, then the murder was committed in the early hours of Monday 9 September 1889.

                              Comment

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