Why Thompson might be Jack the Ripper. In 1,200 words.

[Ausgirl]

Off topic, sorry, but I have to share this Dowson poem which I've always liked.. I never knew anything much about his life, however, so this is quite exciting. Apparently he was a bit of a pedo? And I read this quite differently, now. There's death, and then there's all kinds of death.. I promise not to poem-spam hereafter, though. ETA: The metre in this is just wonderful.

Amor Profanus

Beyond the pale of memory,
In some mysterious dusky grove;
A place of shadows utterly,
Where never coos the turtle-dove,
A world forgotten of the sun:
I dreamed we met when day was done,
And marvelled at our ancient love.

Met there by chance, long kept apart,
We wandered through the darkling glades;
And that old language of the heart
We sought to speak: alas! poor shades!
Over our pallid lips had run
The waters of oblivion,
Which crown all loves of men or maids.

In vain we stammered: from afar
Our old desire shone cold and dead:
That time was distant as a star,
When eyes were bright and lips were red.
And still we went with downcast eye
And no delight in being nigh,
Poor shadows most uncomforted.

Ah, Lalage! while life is ours,
Hoard not thy beauty rose and white,
But pluck the pretty fleeing flowers
That deck our little path of light:
For all too soon we twain shall tread
The bitter pastures of the dead:
Estranged, sad spectres of the night.


Oh, ewww... and Ad Domnulam Suam is suddenly something quite nasty. This is what I get for being a lazy reader. And why, sometimes, it's better to know the art, and not the artist.

[Ausgirl]

I entirely agree. Sorry about the earlier confusion with one of Martin Fido's minor suspects, Richard. Ernest Dowson (Mr. Moring) was also a drug-addicted poet who hung around the East End. I mistakenly equated him with Francis Thompson. Must be the affects of old age.

Has he been firmly identified as 'Moring'? I'd love to know more!

If Dowson knew MK, then might there be something more to this couplet than apparent romantic lament?

All day mine hunger for her heart became
Oblivion, until the evening came

[Wickerman]

Awkward.

[Roy Corduroy]

The deja vu's of November

[ATTACH]16616[/ATTACH]

Our Lady of England Priory Storrington, Sussex where he stayed in 1889. Francis Thompson's room was on the third floor, extreme left.

He was sent to stay at Our Lady of England Priory Storrington, Sussex in February 1889, by Wilfred Meynell, his new publisher, to get away from London and recuperate and to write. Because Meynell had 'rescued' Francis Thompson from his drug addiction (laudanum) by performing an intervention while at the same time beginning to publish Thompson's poetry and other literary works in his magazine Merry England.

Which raises a question: Was Francis Thompson in the hospital at the time of the Mary Kelly murder?

In my opinion, based on reading his biographies by Everard Meynell (Wilfred's son) and John Walsh, is that yes it is likely Francis Thompson was in hospital Nov 9, 1888.

The timeline is that Francis Thompson met Wilfred Meynell face to face in May 1888 and yes Meynell published him, and he and his wife Alice began to take Francis under their sponsorship. In October of 1888 he was seen by a doctor, who, shocked at Thompson's condition, had him put in a private hospital. This was cold turkey. John Walsh reckons it was a six week stay. "By December" he was out of the hospital, but may have had a relapse and so was sent to the peace and quiet of the country.

Yes, Francis Thompson certainly could have been in hospital Nov 9. But I get the idea there are no known records to verify that one way or the other.

Roy

[GUT]

A better suspect than many I've seen, but I still need convincing.

[Scott Nelson]

Unless I have missed something significant, yes this suspect appears quite feasible.

I entirely agree. Sorry about the earlier confusion with one of Martin Fido's minor suspects, Richard. Ernest Dowson (Mr. Moring) was also a drug-addicted poet who hung around the East End. I mistakenly equated him with Francis Thompson. Must be the affects of old age.

[Wickerman]

What I'm saying is, you have a good enough suspect, IMO, as to be one of the few 'new' suspects which make any kind of sense. Therefore, you do your argument a vast disservice by doing what every half baked theorist does and "stretching" a perhaps into a definite in the attempt to make it all more convincing, and it just achieves the opposite.

Over baking the cake, yes, an easy trap to fall into.
Although I admit to not having read everything Richard has written about his suspect, I also agree this suspect appears a good deal more acceptable than many others that come to mind.

Also, too many theorists try to sell a belief as a fact, or a possibility as a certainty. Let the reader draw their own conclusions. A theory cannot provide answers to every question, and any theory that tries to do this immediately draws suspicion.

I want to trust you as a researcher and an author, is what I am saying. Because this all looks actually quite feasible.

Unless I have missed something significant, yes this suspect appears quite feasible.

[Roy Corduroy]

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Our Lady of England Priory Storrington, Sussex where he stayed in 1889. Francis Thompson's room was on the third floor, extreme left.

Thanks for the terrific photo of the priory. When you say the 3rd floor are using the British convention that has the street level as the ground floor and the floor above it as the first floor, or the American English, where street level is the first floor? The incident with Thompson and an attack dog is not in Walsh’s biography.

You're welcome, Richard, I don't know which convention, simply repeating the caption from the John Walsh bio page 83.

[Wickerman]

And we have a modern day forensic pathologist who states that it is almost impossible to tell a left handed killer from a right handed one.

So this is just another part of the Ripper myth that has found its way down the swanee river !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I sometimes wonder Trevor, just how precise your questions are to these 'professionals' who you approach.
A vague question will undoubtedly produce a vague reply.

As the body in Millers Court was only accessible from one side I am sure a professional will be able to determine whether the sweeps of the knife were left-to-right (left-handed), or right-to-left (right-handed).
Likewise with the case of Chapman, positioned too close to the fence for a killer to stand on her left side.

It would be extremely awkward for a left-handed killer to slice the abdomen from breastbone to pubs when he is positioned by her right side, but quite easy for a right-handed killer. Likewise, the facial bruises on Nichols are consistent with them being caused by a left hand, holding the head firm while the knife is used in the right hand to slice her throat.

There are indications in all the victims, we just have to look close enough.
Or, when consulting the opinions of others, ask the right questions.

[Ausgirl]

One of Mary Kelly's friends was a poor devil-driven poet who often haunted the taverns

What I'd like to see, if this guy was known about the area (and being a poet, I doubt he didn't make some sort of spectacle of himself, silent or loud), is mention of him anywhere else at all.

This is at present a tenuous thread - but an exciting one!



Description fits. I call it the "Nick Cave aura", lol. And I know a handful of poets who have it. They're the ones I fall for, in a moment, and spend years regretting it. And not regretting it, all at once.

[Ausgirl]

Should I not have mentioned Walsh’s observation? I know of some casebook members have read the same book in the past and thought it worth not reporting?

Heck no, it deserves a mention. It helps you theory along, and if you do happen to find some further circumstantial evidence, it can only help.

Just, it's one thing to say he stayed there, another to put him in the area during the necessary time frame.

Also, the dislike of blood - and I know you've addressed this elsewhere here, but all the same -- makes me wonder why he's pick such a bloody way to express himself. Really, it does.

I too look forward to reading, however. I think the Royal conspiracists, Patty Cornwell, the Van Gogh guy, etc., have made your case harder to argue than it might have otherwise been.

[Richard Patterson]

...
I'd like to know if he was the poet MK was said to hang out with!
...

I think that the idea that Mary Kelly had a friendship with a poet comes from the English writer Robert Thurston Hopkins (1884-1958), 1935 book, “Life and Death at the Old Bailey,” has a relatively early account of the Ripper murders. It introduced an unknown suspect who was a poet.

It was an Old Bailey officer who offered Hopkins information on the case. Although the officer is not named, his knowledge of all the murders was strong being, ‘on duty in the East End throughout the whole run of the murders.’ Hopkins gave a brief, but surprisingly accurate account of the crimes and looked at several suspects. He pressed the idea that the Ripper may have had surgical skill, before introducing a poet as Jack the Ripper. The Catholic poet Francis Thompson, had trained for six years as a surgeon at Owens Medical College Manchester, dissecting hundreds of cadaver. Even 46 years after the murders, Hopkins was not ready to give his suspect an actual name so he made one up, calling him Mr Moring. Funny thing about Thompson, but the volumes of poetry published in his lifetime were all decorated with rings on the front cover. Thompson’s grave has ‘more rings’ with a symbol of two that are carved entwined onto his tombstone.

Hopkins remarked that his poet’s appearance was the same as the man seen by George Hutchinson outside Miller’s Court in Whitechapel’s Dorset Street. Hutchinson was the last person to see Mary Kelly. Both Francis Thompson and Hutchinson’s man carried a parcel with a strap around it, were near the same height, were pale, had very dark hair, had a moustache, wore a dark coat and sported chains.

Here is a section of Hopkins’s chapter on the Ripper detailing the poet and his friendship with Mary Kelly,

‘One of Mary Kelly's friends was a poor devil-driven poet who often haunted the taverns around the East End. I will call him " Mr. Moring," but of course that was not his real name. Moring would often walk about all night and I had many long talks with him as together we paced the gloomy courts and alleys…He had black, lank hair and moustache, and the long, dark face of the typical bard…. Moring, who knew every opium den in the East End, although at that time they were not counted in with the sights of London, often gave himself up to long spells of opium smoking. "Alcohol for fools; opium for poets, was a phrase which recurred constantly in his talk. "To-morrow one dies," was his motto, and he would sometimes add " and who cares-will it stop the traffic on London Bridge?" After reading the above [George Hutchinson’s inquest testimony] statement I looked back on my memories of the wandering poet and curiously enough that description fitted him down to the ground! But I could not connect a man of such extraordinary gentleness committing such a dreadful series of outrages.’

That Hopkins's poet may have been Thompson, a long time user and addict to opium, is reinforced by Walsh's 1967 biography on Thompson. It tells of Hopkins’ connection to Thompson, who died in 1907. In 1927 Hopkins visited people and places associated with Thompson. Hopkins for example went to Panton Street, in London’s Haymarket District. While there he spoke with John McMaster a shoemaker, who had briefly taken Thompson off the streets. This was in 1886. McMaster hired Thompson to deliver boots and learn the trade, but after a few months was forced to fire Thompson after he injured a customer. Hopkins included these details in his 1927 book, “This London - Its Taverns, Haunts And Memories.”

[Richard Patterson]

I am certainly not accusing anyone of being 'uninformed' here.

What I'm saying is, you have a good enough suspect, IMO, as to be one of the few 'new' suspects which make any kind of sense. Therefore, you do your argument a vast disservice by doing what every half baked theorist does and "stretching" a perhaps into a definite in the attempt to make it all more convincing, and it just achieves the opposite.

He may have stayed at the Providence place, but was he there for the period of the murders? Was he moving between places? If you found a bit of info that contradicted your theory, would you include it, or push it under the nearest bit of furniture with the toe of your shoe and hope nobody notices?

I want to trust you as a researcher and an author, is what I am saying. Because this all looks actually quite feasible.

My apologies. I’m not accusing you of accusing anyone of being uniformed. Perhaps Thompson did not stay in the Providence Row refuge. Perhaps, although a strong Catholic, with ties to priests and the church, for some reason unknown to me Providence Row was a last and not a first resort of Thompson’s. Should I not have mentioned Walsh’s observation? I know of some casebook members have read the same book in the past and thought it worth not reporting. My 1,200 hundred word essay on why Thompson might be the Ripper is merely a compilation of what anyone could find on Thompson if they bothered to read the few books on him or take a trip a Boston College and look in the archives which are open to the public. There is no secret informant or hidden chest. It’s all there for you or me or anyone to look at. The bulk of what I write even now on Thompson was found in a few short weeks back in 1997, by visiting my local library. All I have learned to do since then is merely distill the essence of my research. In the 18 years that I have been presenting information on Thompson, no one has been able to show that I am in the habit of hiding contradictory evidence. Considering that I am accusing a famed poet, who is much admired by many millions of people, of ripping five women apart, I would have thought someone would have done so by now, if this were my habit. Don’t think people haven’t tried, considering Thompson’s profound influence. Even Middle Earth is not untouched by Thompson. J.R Tolkien admitted that the ‘Profound expressions’ in Thompson’s poems had an important influence on his own writing. Tolkien came to know Thompson’s work in 1910 and in 1914 gave a long talk in Exeter College’s Essay Club where he praised Thompson and said that he was, ‘in perfect harmony with the poet.’ Tolkien took inspiration from Thompson. Tolkien’s elf maiden Lúthien came from Thompson’s coinage of the word Luthany from his poem, “The Mistress of Vision” Tolkien’s use of the word Southron for southerner, in his “Lord of the Rings” comes from Thompson’s poem “At Lords”. If a Tolkien fan found a bit of info, that suggested that a possible prostitute murderer inspired their favorite author, would they ignore it and hoped nobody noticed? Readers, authors, ripperologists, journalists, historians, cardinals, and people who still make money from Thompson’s poetry have tried to invalidate my claims. Why? Probably its simply because truth hurts, when worlds collide. My essay certainly paints Thompson in the worst possible way, but it does so in 1,200 words while book does more of the same using 125,000 words, without anyone able to find a bit of info to discredit it. I appreciate your wish to sort the wheat from the chaff. I acknowledge that speaking truthfully is important to you. I certainly didn’t mean to appear offensive or defensive, but placing Thompson under suspicion has never been an exercise of nicety.

[Trevor Marriott]

Let's be honest, it most likely wasn't Thompson. The tortured poet vowing revenge on the class of woman who broke his heart is a nice story, and I can see why you'd want to keep it alive, but it's also a fanciful one. And that's without accounting for Thompson being left-handed and not in the best physical condition to carry out the murders.

And we have a modern day forensic pathologist who states that it is almost impossible to tell a left handed killer from a right handed one.

So this is just another part of the Ripper myth that has found its way down the swanee river !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Amanda]

Thanks...

Thanks Richard,

Satisfactory answers there.

Think my game plan now is to buy your book, devour every page and then see how I feel as Thompson as a suspect.

I warn you, I may have dozens of questions, I'm a persistent pain in the a**e!
Amanda