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  • Motive

    I think the whole Stephenson theory stands or falls on motive.

    There appears to be no basis for any magical theory or magical working that would require such murders. Also, in Ivor Edwards book its rather confusing if the distance between victims is measured by trundle wheel or as the crow flies as both methods of measurement are mentioned in that rather confusing book.

    It happens that I know quite a bit about Crowley and his predecessors as I got drawn into a totally unrelated investigation last year. Knowing what I think I know about the (completely nutty) occult ideas these people had it wouldn't actually be necessary to kill someone at these points anyway. Unless Stephenson was making up something new.

    So if the motive was not magical then what other motive is there?
    If it was that he was a lunatic then why did the killings stop?
    Is there any other motive?

    Also, if you did want to go around killing people the worst place to be based would be a public ward in a hospital. Much better to rent a room somewhere where you can come and go as you please with no repeated witnesses like the staff.

  • #2
    I have revisited this issue and maybe there is sufficient motive. If Stephenson believed that what he was doing would work then that might be motive enough even if nobody else agreed with him.

    For that reason I have moved him onto my list of plausible suspects. Also because he can't be ruled out as being somewhere else at the time.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by GordonH View Post
      I think the whole Stephenson theory stands or falls on motive.

      So if the motive was not magical then what other motive is there?
      If it was that he was a lunatic then why did the killings stop?
      Is there any other motive?
      Two very good questions. What was the motive for the killings? Why did the killings stop? Those are two important questions and if we knew the answer for certain we probably would no the identity of the Ripper.

      Inspector Abberlines gives possible conclusions to both questions during an interview that took place in 1903. Abberline suggest organ harvesting as a possible motive. He tells the story of a strange man going to medical schools and trying to obtain organs. He suggest the possibility that the strange man hired another man to obtain the organs for him. If you read between the lines you might conclude that Abberline believed the Ripper had some sort of medical knowledge. I doubt that Abberline thought the strange American who wanted to obtain organs would hire some hack to obtain them.

      Abberline goes on to say that he believed the Ripper fled to America. Think about it. Why did the killings stop?

      1.The Ripper flees the area and his new murders are not connected to the Whitechaple murders.
      2, The Ripper dies. He is either killed by someone or he commits suicide or he dies of natural causes.
      3. The Ripper, is locked up for some other reason in an asylum or prison.

      Those are the accepted reasons. Here are some more possible reasons.

      4. The Ripper performed his task and was finished.
      5. The Ripper's lebido became less of a force due to age or illness. If the murders were sex murders/lust crimes then it is possible his urges slowed down due to age or ilness.

      Now, before someone jumps down my throat for endorsing Abberline's organ harvest theory or for puncuation and grammer misstakes. I am not endorsing Abberline's organ harvesting theory and I aint no English major. I am just useing Abberline's thoughts as an example that we have so many possible motives. That is why we have to be careful and not eliminate suspects such George Chapman.

      Profilers will tell you that the Ripper killed to gain sexual satisfaction. This may be true but who to say the motive was not for some sort of black magic.

      I believe the Ripper was scared of women. Because he was scared of women he became frustrated by them and then his frustration turned to anger. I think he took the organs as trophies. I think that the Ripper may have been gay. I know that the Ripper being gay is in complete contrast of what profilers will claim. However I think profiling is crap.

      Motive is the key to solving the case. I suggest you do what everyone else does. Pick a suspect an then put forth a motive that fits your guy.

      Your friend Brad
      Last edited by celee; 05-23-2009, 01:16 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by GordonH View Post
        For that reason I have moved him onto my list of plausible suspects. Also because he can't be ruled out as being somewhere else at the time.
        Hi Gordon,

        What Primary sources do you utilise to come to the conclusion that Stephenson can't be ruled out as being somewhere else at the time?
        Regards Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mike Covell View Post
          Hi Gordon,

          What Primary sources do you utilise to come to the conclusion that Stephenson can't be ruled out as being somewhere else at the time?
          None, but I have not heard of anyone coming up with anything that proves he was somewhere else. In fact there is evidence he was in the area, unlike James Kelly (who can't be ruled out, but there is no evidence of him being in the area at the time so he is possible but not very likely).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GordonH View Post
            None, but I have not heard of anyone coming up with anything that proves he was somewhere else. In fact there is evidence he was in the area, unlike James Kelly (who can't be ruled out, but there is no evidence of him being in the area at the time so he is possible but not very likely).

            Well, you cant rule out the possibility that an elephant can strand on one leg while balancing a daisey on its head but is it likely. The whole Stephenson thing seems abit far out but best of luck to you.

            your friend, Brad

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by celee View Post
              Well, you cant rule out the possibility that an elephant can strand on one leg while balancing a daisey on its head but is it likely. The whole Stephenson thing seems abit far out but best of luck to you.

              your friend, Brad
              I was saying he is plausible because he was there and he might have had a motive and we have all the other apparent evidence.

              When it comes to the named popular suspects it is a case of ruling them out.
              We can definitely rule out some of them e.g. Sickert was in France at least some of the time, Prince Albert Victor was seen in other places at the times of the murders. Stephenson has no alibi so he has to stay on the list. My feeling is that it has to have been a local person with a previous history of violence.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Gordon,

                Does Stephenson being an inpatient at the London Hospital not give him an alibi?
                Regards Mike

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mike Covell View Post
                  Hi Gordon,

                  Does Stephenson being an inpatient at the London Hospital not give him an alibi?
                  It might do, but it depends what's wrong with him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    During the late 1860's, during his tenure at the Hull Custom's Stephenson is treated for Cerebral matters.

                    In 1888 he is in hospital suffering Neurosthenia/Neurasthenia, which is a nervous condition. He is required to stay as an inpatient for 134 days from 26th July 1888 to 7th Dec 1888.

                    In 1889 he is in hospital suffering Chloralism, which is caused by the habitual use of chloral compounds. He is required to stay as an inpatient for 73 days from 13th May 1889 until 25th July 1889.

                    In the Borderlands article Stephenson admits to having suffered Brain Fever.

                    Circumstances-Fate, if you will-however, intervened ; and at the time that I should have joined him in Madrid to undergo the preliminary training, I was down with brain fever. It was not to be.
                    Regards Mike

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mike Covell: "Does Stephenson being an inpatient at the London Hospital not give him an alibi?"

                      Gordon: "It might do, but it depends what's wrong with him."

                      It actually depends less on how sick he was ( there is no reason to suppose he wasn't) and more on whether he was able to leave the Ward he was in at the LH during July to at least October 16th. If he was incapable of getting on the street at night, he's not a suspect. His suspect status, began with ironmonger/salesman George Marsh. Yet Marsh was not aware of when RDS was in the LH when he went to Scotland Yard in late December of 1888 to roll over on Sudden Death. The ward he was in during the time of the first 4 murders, The Currie Ward, had protocol preventing people from entering and leaving it after a certain time of night. Keeping homeless people and prosses out of that section of the Hospital was part of LH protocol. Despite him having no known history of violence to women, no known venereal disease as once promoted as if a fact, no known history of consorting with prostitutes as once promoted as if a fact, and dozens of other false or sourceless claims, the most important factor in his candidacy is his ability to be the Ripper . He didn't have it even if he wanted it,Gordon.

                      Hope this helps.

                      Thank Mike for the Currie Ward protocol because he was the first to take the proper steps in finding this information out 2 years ago.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As for motive, unless any here knows the mysteries of the Hermetic order to which he belonged and knows their spells we will never know the motive.

                        If we are just talking about a sick man then what was the ripper after? It wasn't murder really. He killed Stride but had to do another because he didn't get a chance to mutilate. It's the mutilation then. What did the ripper do? Opened them up, and took parts away. That sounds like giving birth to me.
                        It could be a mutated form of procreative desire. The parts he takes are the baby.

                        Sounds zany.

                        It could be the desire to shock. To leave a horror to be found. He is showing the people of Whitechapel how he feels about them. That he is worse than they, maybe. That he sees them as shocking as the bodies seem to them.

                        I like the idea that he was an abortionist gone mad. I wonder if Donston plied that trade too. conjecture.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by celee View Post
                          I believe the Ripper was scared of women. Because he was scared of women he became frustrated by them and then his frustration turned to anger... I think that the Ripper may have been gay....Motive is the key to solving the case.
                          I think one can move from motive to suspect. If you assume the motive is similar to the mysterious, fragrant-delicto motivation of the serial killer character in the movie Perfume, which is similar to the motive in the profile you ascribe to the Ripper, gay if you mean effeminate, then I think Roslyn Donston Stephenson is a good fit since he was involved in the cosmetics business.
                          Movies may exaggerate like in the Hannibal Lecter films but the mold for the prototype is set on celluloid. There's more than one reason women avoid nice guys.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by celee View Post
                            5. The Ripper's lebido became less of a force due to age or illness. If the murders were sex murders/lust crimes then it is possible his urges slowed down due to age or ilness.

                            I think that the Ripper may have been gay. I know that the Ripper being gay is in complete contrast of what profilers will claim. However I think profiling is crap.
                            Brad,
                            a few points on your comments here,
                            1- If the killings where motivated by sex and Jacks libedo where failing that may explain the brutality of the crimes and the escalation from just killing (I dont believe Nichols was his first) to mutilating and taking organs. He may have had to do more to get the gratification.

                            2- Gay killers kill other gays almost exclusivly and no other documented gay killer has focused on just women. thats not to say that Jack could not been the exception but it does make it unlikly that he was gay. I believe that is the contrast you elluded to in your post.

                            3-As far as profiling being crap, I can only find 1 modern day documented gay killer (Donald Garvey) that killed women too so it seems to work in the case of Gay killers to at least 99%

                            top 10 gay killers (actually 11 becouse 3 of them teamed up)

                            Donald Garvey: 37 Murders
                            John Wayne Gacy: 33 Murders
                            Patrick Wayne Kearney: 32 Murders
                            Corll, Henley and Brooks (Texas homosexual torture/murder ring) 32 Murders
                            Bruce Davis: 28 murders
                            Juan Corona: 25 Murders
                            Jeffrey Dahmer: 17 Murders
                            Stephen Kraft: 16 Murders
                            William Bonin: 14 Murders
                            Last edited by smezenen; 06-22-2009, 09:51 AM.
                            'Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO, What a Ride!'

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'd be interested in comparing the jobs or hobbies of the gay killers listed above to the heterosexual killers.
                              I only know that Dahmer was a factory worker and Gacy was a contractor.

                              Heterosexual killers Robert Hansen and Angelo Buono were in the bakery and upholstery business, respectively. I think you can see what I'm driving at.
                              The Yorkshire Ripper (from Hell, from close to Hull?) was a truck driver but he was involved in body building, which would attract esthetes.

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