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  • #46
    As some people are clearly miss understanding what my gripe with Dan Norder is about, let me make it perfectly clear, it is about this statement:

    "She surrounds herself with yes men (or, more often, yes women) to stoke her own ego. She's basically bought an undeserved reputation as an expert and uses it to fool her target audience into thinking they are getting the real thing".

    It is a statement clearly aimed at people currently in Patricia's employ..it is a statement that is factually incorrect and clearly a statement born on the individual prejudice of its creator..

    this is not an argument about Walter Sickert who was clearly in France at teh time of the murders..

    However research on Sickert is clearly justifiable as the possibility remains that he MAY have written hoax letters?

    Any research that adds to our understanding of the JtR murders is clearly justifiable and beneficial to Ripperology..

    That is the argument in hand..

    next...

    Comment


    • #47
      If dear old Pat were to pass me twenty gold sovereigns right now I'd lay down my sad hide for her, and a fine fully rigged sloop with twenty good cannon to blaze a trail of glory through their manky fleet; but I'd have to bite her coin with me teeth, take me pleasure with 'er and have a good bottle of that fine Japan whisky.
      By god, I'd nail her tits to the table.

      Comment


      • #48
        And I rarely do suspect pointing but should I hold favour with a particular suspect, rest assured that it will be based on daming evidence rather that the possibility this suspect wrote letters and looked like a 'sick bastard'.

        Monty




        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Monty View Post
          Jeff,

          The insults Cornwell threw were in a documentary she did, news interviews she gave promoting her book and, I do believe, her book.

          They were aimed at researchers of, and those interested in, this subject of Jack, of which I am one. So yes, I take it as personal.

          Monty
          Monty

          I have utmost respect for what you are saying...

          But really..I have not seen these..please could you give 'quoted' referance, and source information..

          I can not be expected to discuss this seriously without knowing exactly what was said and where these referances are?

          Yours Jeff

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          • #50
            Come on Monty...are you really asking me to create a TV program where i"m not aloud to speculate that Druit or Kosminski or Cohen or Tumblety or Chapman or MAYBRI** (**** to many glasses of wine)

            That inocent people were Jack The Ripper....come on its what we do...ask Stan Rosso....were Ripperologists..

            We want to know who did it...and they cant all be guilty..

            Pleas egive pricise information on these Cornwall attacks ..and I will get an answer..

            Jeff

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            • #51
              Monty and Dan

              If what you say about Patricia is correct..will you please provide me with source referances so that I can undertake research into your claims that Patricia Corwall made personal attacks against you both..and the context in which these personal attacks took place..

              I'm afraid i have been unable to find anything?

              I think this matter needs resolving

              Jeff

              Comment


              • #52
                Jeff,

                Have I mentioned that suspect based research is a no-no? You are chasing the wrong stick.

                I stated that her evidence is weak and her statement of case closed is utterly and completely wrong. She has no sound evidence Sickert was Jack nor that he was a sick bastard, as per her statement in the documentary.

                As for evidence gathering, its past midnight here and Im shattered. Maybe tomorrow




                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                Comment


                • #53
                  It is late Monty,i need to be up at 6am...

                  I'm asking for source information, specifics, what exactly are you and Dan claiming PC said about Ripperologists or you personally?

                  Not about Sickert..he was in France..I'm talking about personal abuse

                  I want to see this ??? as I cant find anything...??

                  Sweet Dreams Jeff

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Then maybe you should write to Primetime where she did her interview in december 01 and ask for a transcript. The fact that you didn't bother to watch it doesn't mean others should have to do your research for you. But here's a personal account from someone who attended one of her lectures:

                    http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...-cornwell.html


                    And here's a quote from someone else:

                    http://www.rediff.com/getahead/2005/aug/31cornwell.htm

                    At lectures, Ripper fans watched in bemusement as Cornwell's paranoia grew --she hired armed guards to protect her from possible attacks from Ripperologists, she called anyone who cast doubts on her theories part of the 'Klingon brigade'.


                    Yeah because Stewart Evans and Rumbelow, real thug-like Klingons liable to go hunt her down and kill her.

                    Let all Oz be agreed;
                    I'm Wicked through and through.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      And about 2 years ago I posted the transcript of an interview from MSNBC's Imus in the Morning in which she says we're all money grubbing scum who don't want the case solved because we love our money and make too much of it from walking tours, book signings and t-shirt sales.

                      I believe she took out a full page newspaper ad about some beef she had with our field as well.


                      But, like AP, I have no real problem with her.

                      JM

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by jmenges View Post
                        And about 2 years ago I posted the transcript of an interview from MSNBC's Imus in the Morning in which she says we're all money grubbing scum who don't want the case solved because we love our money and make too much of it from walking tours, book signings and t-shirt sales.

                        I'm confused. I thought A.P. Wolf said that; or maybe the late David Radka?

                        She's hardly the first.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Right, not the first.

                          She also recommended (in the MSNBC interview) digging Sickerts grave up. Apparently not knowing or remembering that he had been cremated.

                          JM

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Just as a sidenote: I once read P. Cornwell's novels with some fun... That was until she tied physical deformation with psychic deformation. And not in the case of W. Sickert.
                            I'm talking about the character Jean-Baptist Chandonne of The Last Precinct and Blow Fly. He is both the raving werewolf and the slick deformed predator. I really wonder why she needed to portray a gruesome serial killer as physically deformed. Was she just thinking it was a quaint idea to have a victim of a genetic defect as a modern day werewolf or does she really have the notion that mind and body are that closely tied together that deformation of the body also coincides with a sick mind?
                            The similarity to the Sickert "solution" with the "fistula" as cause of madness really bothers me.
                            "The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice." - Quellcrist Falconer
                            "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" - Johannes Clauberg

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by JSchmidt View Post
                              I really wonder why she needed to portray a gruesome serial killer as physically deformed.

                              You know, I got verbally abused when I made this point in the past, (which didn’t phase me) but the truth is that it can be traced back to John Douglas and other FBI “profilers.”

                              Here’s the major section of John Douglas’s profile of the Ripper:

                              1. “He comes from a family where he was raised by a domineering mother and weak, passive and/or absent father. In all likelihood, his mother drank heavily and enjoyed the company of many men. As a result, he failed to receive consistent care and contact with stable adult role models. Consequently, he became detached socially and developed a diminished emotional response towards his fellow man. He became asocial, preferring to be alone. His anger became internalized and in his younger years, he expressed his pent-up destructive emotions by setting fires and torturing small animals. By perpetrating these acts, he discovered increased areas of dominance, power and control, and learned how to continue violent destructive acts without detection or punishment.
                              2. As he grew older, his fantasy developed a strong component that included domination, cruelty, and mutilation of women. We would expect to find evidence of this violent destructive fantasy life through personal writings of his as well as drawings of women being mutilated.

                              3. For employment, he would seek a position where he could work alone and vicariously experience his destructive fantasies. Such employment would include work as a butcher, mortician's helper, medical examiner's assistant, or hospital attendant. [Cornwell has Sickert studying anatomy]. He is employed Monday through Friday and on Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday is off from work. He has carried a knife for defense purposes--just in case he was ever attacked, he would be ready. This paranoid-type of thinking is in part justified because of the poor self-image he has of himself. He would be expected to have some type of physical abnormality. However, although not severe, he perceives this as being psychologically crippling. We would look for someone below or above average in height and/or weight. May have problems with speech, scarred complexion, physical illness, or injury.”



                              Note the highlighted portions and how they end up being directly expressed in Cornwell’s writings about Sickert--including the bit about physical abnormalities.

                              Bruce Paley, working from the same FBI ‘profile’ had Joseph Barnett stutterering. Why? Because it is textbook Douglas. He told them the answers, and they plugged them in.

                              Similarly, Patricia Cornwell looks at the suspects, finds a bloke with a fistula who also paints strange pictures of ladies, and assumes she’s onto something. She directly stated this is what drove her to suspect Sickert.

                              While the inadequacies of Cornwell’s historical arguments are entirely her own, the whole underlying philosophy of her approach --the entire 'framework'-- is clearly traceable back to our old friend the FBI Behavioral Science Unit.

                              Shoot her if you must, but at least have the honesty to save the last bullet for the Dr. Frankenstein who unleashed this fury.

                              What did Oscar Wilde say? The rage of Caliban at seeing his own face in the mirror.
                              Last edited by rjpalmer; 05-17-2008, 04:43 AM.

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                              • #60
                                Thanks

                                Ally, Jonathan, Guys,

                                Thanks for doing the leg work. I have a private mail from Scott Medine about that lecture Ally. Pretty much runs along the lines of the report you have provided.

                                Ive nothing againt PC, merely reasoning that the abuse isnt all one way.

                                Monty




                                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

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