The Ripper Diary: Old Hoax Theories

[GUT]

All of our theories are dependent on one simple fact that the diary and watch have been tested properly.

But the start of the thread asks us to assume that it is an old hoax, I am not persuaded on that yet, but am still open.

[pinkmoon]

All of our theories are dependent on one simple fact that the diary and watch have been tested properly.

[Livia]

Battlecrease was stripped of everything that wasn't
nailed down, including the children's toys.

Unfortunately, this copy of the ad from the 9th July 1889
Liverpool Mercury is not very clear, but clear enough so
that you can "Watches" listed among the jewelry. One
watch is described as counterspring, gold, keyless,
monogrammed, open dial watch.

[GUT]

Sorry, should have been more specific! Michael the brother. Very interesting character.

And if written as a work of fiction, planning to publish it or not [it may have just been to excise some demons] a man with his creative flair isn't out of the question.

[GUT]

Are we forgetting something?

The watch! Any old hoax theory has to include the watch, doesn't it?

The Diary and the watch would have to have been created at the same time. How did they get separated?

Was the watch pawned or sold and the Diary kept? Were there two discoverers?

Was there anyone who lived in the house, so may have left the diary behind inadvertently or not.

Who had connections with the family and crime, so may have had knowledge.

Who got into financial difficulties, and may have had to sell the watch, or even lost it in a bankruptcy.

[Purkis]

Michael the brother?

Or Michael Barrett?

One I suspect, the other I don't think I do.

Sorry, should have been more specific! Michael the brother. Very interesting character.

[MayBea]

Are we forgetting something?

The watch! Any old hoax theory has to include the watch, doesn't it?

The Diary and the watch would have to have been created at the same time. How did they get separated?

Was the watch pawned or sold and the Diary kept? Were there two discoverers?

[Livia]

None that I know of, other than the "journalist"
who wrote it. I doubt they were paid enough to
be able to afford to live there.

There was a "mysterious death" in Manchester,
although the timing is off. But if the diary was
written by recall at some later date, that could
explain why this incident doesn't fit. An Elizabeth
Ellison and her boyfriend (Evans) went to see the
Queen's Jubilee Exhibition (November 1887) and
then stopped off at a hotel bar for a drink. She went
outside to wait for him, but was missing when he
went to meet her. She was found in the Old Trafford
Canal a day or two later with post-mortem mutilations
to her body.

The first pathologist said she was strangled, the
second said she wasn't. Evans was arrested,
but released due to lack of evidence.

There was an Ellison who married into the Maybrick
family and one of them gave all their children the
middle name "Maybrick" in the hope of financial gain.
This is mentioned in Feldman. But this Elizabeth Ellison
was from Warrington, not Liverpool and I never found a
link between the families, although I didn't look too hard
because of the date discrepancy.

[pinkmoon]

Can we link a journalist to battlecrease?

[GUT]

Me too, Caz. I'm hoping Keith's information will be
released in Bruce Robinson's book "They all Love Jack",
coming this September.

Battlecrease was empty from about the last week in May
to early November when the Fletcher Rogers family took
over the lease. He died soon after, but the family stayed
in the house for a few years. Then an insurance agent
Frederick Loftus and his family lived there and after they
left, Francis Warre Rathbone (son of a wealthy merchant
family) took it over for a few years. Then in about 1921,
Alan Rumohr Hughes took over the house and lived there
for about 20 years.

Hughes is interesting. He was the nephew (by marriage)
of Constance Martha (Janion) Hughes, sister of Mrs Matilda
(Janion) Briggs. If you recall, these two women were there
when Jim died and participated in the search of the house and
later testified at Florence's trial.

And then there's Douglas Quintin Steel and his wife, who
lived in the other half of Battlecrease. Steel and his brother
Allan Gibson Steel represented the Maybrick brothers at
Florence's trial and later during the litigation brought by
Florence's lawyer, Richard S Cleaver to claim Jim's insurance
payout. In the early 1890s, Steel claimed bankruptcy with
debts of over £17K. It was rumored that Florence had had
an affair with his brother, Arthur Jackson Steel, an immensely
wealthy ship owner and one of five Steel brothers. Allan Gibson
Steel left Liverpool for London and became a QC. He was also
a cricket star who wrote books on the subject and played in the
first match against Australia, the famous "Ashes" tournament.

Thanks for that I'll have to digest it, there are a few potentials there to have planted it [if it was indeed planted].

[Livia]

But then how did it arrive in Battlecrease? You don't need to trust me that it did; I have Keith Skinner with me on this one.

Love,

Caz
X

Me too, Caz. I'm hoping Keith's information will be
released in Bruce Robinson's book "They all Love Jack",
coming this September.

Battlecrease was empty from about the last week in May
to early November when the Fletcher Rogers family took
over the lease. He died soon after, but the family stayed
in the house for a few years. Then an insurance agent
Frederick Loftus and his family lived there and after they
left, Francis Warre Rathbone (son of a wealthy merchant
family) took it over for a few years. Then in about 1921,
Alan Rumohr Hughes took over the house and lived there
for about 20 years.

Hughes is interesting. He was the nephew (by marriage)
of Constance Martha (Janion) Hughes, sister of Mrs Matilda
(Janion) Briggs. If you recall, these two women were there
when Jim died and participated in the search of the house and
later testified at Florence's trial.

And then there's Douglas Quintin Steel and his wife, who
lived in the other half of Battlecrease. Steel and his brother
Allan Gibson Steel represented the Maybrick brothers at
Florence's trial and later during the litigation brought by
Florence's lawyer, Richard S Cleaver to claim Jim's insurance
payout. In the early 1890s, Steel claimed bankruptcy with
debts of over £17K. It was rumored that Florence had had
an affair with his brother, Arthur Jackson Steel, an immensely
wealthy ship owner and one of five Steel brothers. Allan Gibson
Steel left Liverpool for London and became a QC. He was also
a cricket star who wrote books on the subject and played in the
first match against Australia, the famous "Ashes" tournament.

[pinkmoon]

It's one thing placing it in battlecrease but for that to work it would have to be placed at a time and a place where it could be discoverd which then destroys the old hoax theory.

[pinkmoon]

[QUOTE=caz;338787]Ooh you're all on the ball today.

If patience is a virtue, pinkster, I must be as virtuous as anyone in this.

Time - as Jim's motto went - reveals all.

In this case it might only reveal that the bloody thing was indeed in Battlecrease. Even if this was generally accepted, it would only create more questions. I very much doubt we will ever know who actually penned it - unless someone somewhere finds matching handwriting. And it wouldn't be of late 20th century origin.

Love,

Caz
X[/Q
It would be a disaster if Mr Barrett was to snuff it before we found out the truth.

[caz]

Morning my dear,any chance of Mr Skinner revealing his new information to us is there a book in the pipeline?xxxxxx.

Ooh you're all on the ball today.

If patience is a virtue, pinkster, I must be as virtuous as anyone in this.

Time - as Jim's motto went - reveals all.

In this case it might only reveal that the bloody thing was indeed in Battlecrease. Even if this were generally accepted, it would only create more questions. I very much doubt we will ever know who actually penned it - unless someone somewhere finds matching handwriting. And it wouldn't be of late 20th century origin.

Love,

Caz
X

[GUT]

Blimey, that was quick!

I would think lots of people had access to Battlecrease in the aftermath of Jim's death and Florie's arrest.

Later on I seem to recall the jury foreman lived there? Also it became quite a tourist attraction.

Love,

Caz
X

G'day Caz

I only heard about the juror recently and that's an interesting angle, that I could speculate on all day, but I suspect that's all it would be speculation.