New Ideas and New Research on the Diary

[Herlock Sholmes]

I tend to agree for once, John. Certainly nothing new here.

I agree entirely with both you and John, Caz. This thread is utterly pointless and should never have been started.

[Herlock Sholmes]

And I explained my objections in some detail. If you still don't or can't understand them, in the context of what was happening in 1994 and early 1995, in the lives of the Barretts, I'm not particularly inclined to go through it all over again - there is nothing new here. But how could Mike not have seen the affidavit in terms of his relationship with Anne, which was nearing the bitter end for him by then, when he put it through her door at the earliest opportunity? There is no evidence that he had any further purpose in mind for it, so what was it all for, from Mike's point of view? We know why Harris wanted it, but Mike was the one whose name was attached to the contents.



Agree to disagree, Herlock. It'll be easier for both of us and our long-suffering readers.



I disagree.



But Mike didn't get any money for his first forgery story back in June, so if he was hoping to sell a spiced-up version of it by the December, what happened? What is your source for the newspapers being approached but none of them being 'sufficiently interested'? Is this something new and real at last?



What's that saying about revenge being a dish best served cold?

I think Mike's problem was that it hadn't worked when it was still piping hot, so it was more a case of 'if at first you don't succeed...'.



Really? You sound pretty sure of yourself from where I'm sitting.



But a failed marriage is rarely simple and never straightforward. I left two of my own, but what do I know?



No, you don't 'have' to repeat yourself on that score. I think we all know that you believe the Barretts were perfectly capable, but you haven't produced any actual evidence of it, or that they had the means, motive or opportunity to turn a partly used photo album, allegedly bought at an auction sale, into the Maybrick diary. I don't need to prove they did nothing of the sort. I'll just sit and wait for the evidence that they did - and I don't mean what Mike Barrett claimed they did.

In RJ Palmer's dreams, for one, he seems to have been with the Barretts throughout their adult lives, and on intimate terms with their individual capabilities back in the early 1990s. Hell, he's probably joined them on cycling tours round the moon - when he wasn't escorting the brothers Johnson to see life on Mars.

Back in the real world, has anyone whose views you most admire and repeat ever even met these people, never mind got to know anything about them as individuals? Or would you not consider that to be of any importance?

If everyone who knew Charles Lechmere in the 1880s had been asked if they thought he was capable of extreme violence, and they all said "not a chance", whose views would you take more seriously? Theirs, or some armchair theorist in the future, who didn't know the man from Adam?

Love,

Caz
X

I think we both agree that once Mike swore his affidavit he put it through Anne's letterbox, and then did nothing else with it.

What I'm saying, however, is that this doesn't necessarily tell us why he agreed to do the affidavit in the first place.

But even if showing it to Anne was prominent in his mind, and he was hell bent on revenge for Anne wanting to divorce him, it doesn't necessarily mean that he had a motive to lie about having done the forgery with Anne. To my mind, the fact that he only sent it to Anne as a form of blackmail is more consistent with Anne having been involved the forgery.

I appreciate that you disagree with me but that's because you don't think that Mike was involved in the forgery. What you're not giving me are reasons why what I'm saying can't be true.

It's interesting that you tell me that I sound "pretty sure of myself" because I fear that all along you've misunderstood what I'm saying which is no more than that the diary is a modern forgery (of which I'm sure) and that I don't know any reason why the Barretts couldn't have forged it. But I'm not saying any more than that.

And to clarify - because this is very important - I'm not saying the Barretts were capable of doing the forgery. I have no idea about their capabilities. I think I said this to you many weeks ago. I'm saying that no one has explained to me why they weren't capable.

Just to add that my source for the newspapers not being sufficiently interested in Mike's story is in the Alan Gray tapes where Gray was obviously trying to get newspapers interested in the story but none of them were biting. I'm not saying that they were offered the affidavit, only that if they weren't interested in the story in the first place, the affidavit, which could only ever have been supporting evidence for the story, was of no practical use for that purpose

[Herlock Sholmes]

So basically, none of this is evidence that Anne was involved in creating the diary - which she tried and failed to destroy physically back in 1992, and which Mike tried and failed to destroy with all his forgery claims. She is challenging Mike to do so, but he doesn't make a public exhibition of himself in January 1995, by taking his affidavit to Harold Brough, does he? If he had, I don't suppose she would have sat quietly back and taken it, to be publicly accused of writing the diary, with Caroline as a witness. But there was no need for Anne to do anything, because Mike waited until April 1999 to make a semi-public exhibition of himself at a packed Cloak & Dagger Club meeting, by which time she had moved on with her life, and all Mike's attempts to get Anne to "speak to me or I'll....." had failed to work, just as she told him in that letter.

Love,

Caz
X

I wasn't putting Anne's letter forward as evidence of anything relating to the affidavit, Caz.

Can I remind you how this discussion started? I only mentioned the letter (in #96) because it shows that the Barretts weren't yet divorced as at February 1st, 1995. You then raised a question (in #106) about what else was in the letter, so I told you what else was in the letter.

The good thing is that I think we both agree that Mike had said to Anne something along the lines of "Speak to me or else I'll publicize this affidavit". For me, that's kind of odd if the entire story was untrue and Mike knows that Anne knows it's all untrue. It's also odd to my mind that Anne described it as blackmail and seemed to be upset by the prospect of Mike circulating the affidavit to the point where she threatened to retaliate. But, hey ho, people do odd things. At the very least, though, Mike's threat and Anne's response is consistent with them both being involved in the forgery. And Anne never says in her letter to Mike that his affidavit is a pack of lies, which, frankly, I would have expected her to do if that was the case.

So, anyway, I'm still waiting to be told why the Barretts weren't capable of doing the forgery

[caz]

You seem to be making this more complicated than it needs to be Caz.

Really? I thought the same regarding your arguments to keep the Barretts in a distinctly ill-fitting frame.

It's really very simple. As at June 1994, Mike is expecting to be exposed by Nick Warren as having been a former journalist. You seem to quibble with the description of "journalist" but I can't think of any other word that is better or more accurate or appropriate. By this time, he had clearly concealed this information from Shirley Harrison and Doreen Montgomery. There was no good excuse for not having told them. He would have known for sure that they were going to ask him about it once Nick Warren's article was published. And, indeed, we know for a fact that Shirley was sufficiently interested to write to the editor of Celebrity to check the position. Mike only needed to be slightly paranoid to feel under enormous pressure that his entire cover story of being a mere scrap metal dealer was going to collapse around him. If we assume that he was responsible for the forgery, it's not difficult to appreciate that the guilt of all his lies, and the feeling of being suspected by everyone of the forgery, might have been weighing very heavily on him at this time. There is a well known saying that you might have heard of: "Confession is good for the soul".

But is confession ever any good for arsouls like Mike? How much good did his forgery claims do his soul, when he was still at it five years later? He didn't even leave a dying declaration of his supposed skulduggery, but instead claimed that the transcript taken from the diary - which has its own thread here - was all his own unaided work. He couldn't even tell the truth when all he had left to look after was his soul.

The whole 'journalist' argument is beyond absurd as far as I'm concerned, and I can only wonder how anyone was able to sell it to you, unless they were banking on you being unfamiliar with all the twists and turns and thought they could add - or subtract - one or two of their own. Nothing about the argument makes the least bit of sense. There was no pressure on Mike to confess to anything in June 1994, nor in January 1995, nor yet in April 1999, whenever he came out with his various forgery claims, or changed his story like the weather to suit himself and his audience - much less that all this nonsense was triggered by his failure to mention his previous attempts to make a living out of writing. The idea that Mike, of all people, was remotely bothered by this 'revelation' - apart from possibly the humiliation factor of having needed Anne's help - let alone that his minuscule conscience had weighed 'very heavily on him' at any time in his entire life, is purely theoretical, as you yourself admit, while all the evidence screams out against it.

Advice, meant kindly: a theory that lacks evidence is not a new idea in Diary World, but a theory that falls under the weight of what evidence is available is not going to get up off the ground by itself.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

A frankly ridiculous thread that just gets more and more ridiculous.

I tend to agree for once, John. Certainly nothing new here.

[caz]

I think I already explained why the dates don't work, Caz. Firstly, you said that the swearing of the affidavit in January 1995 occurred "just after she got a divorce from him." In fact, as at January 1995 the Barretts were still married. Secondly, you said that Mike was "attempting to throw Anne under that bus for having left him". But Anne left Mike a whole year before he swore his affidavit (which itself wasn't made public) and within that period, six months after she left him, Mike didn't mention Anne's name in his initial public confession. But then thirdly, and most importantly, the idea behind the affidavit appears to have come from Harris and thus had nothing to do with the state of the Barretts' marriage.

And I explained my objections in some detail. If you still don't or can't understand them, in the context of what was happening in 1994 and early 1995, in the lives of the Barretts, I'm not particularly inclined to go through it all over again - there is nothing new here. But how could Mike not have seen the affidavit in terms of his relationship with Anne, which was nearing the bitter end for him by then, when he put it through her door at the earliest opportunity? There is no evidence that he had any further purpose in mind for it, so what was it all for, from Mike's point of view? We know why Harris wanted it, but Mike was the one whose name was attached to the contents.

I also think I put forward believable motives for Mike's confessions.

Agree to disagree, Herlock. It'll be easier for both of us and our long-suffering readers.

In June 1994, he was expecting to be exposed by Nick Warren as having been a former journalist. I don't think there's any doubt about that fact. So I'm suggesting as a possibility that he figured that the game was up and that he might as well finally tell the truth, albeit that he wanted to keep Anne's name out of it as a courtesy to her because he still hoped they might get back together.

I disagree.

By December 1994, he was hoping to sell his story and had already told Alan Gray about his wife's involvement. He accepted the advice from Harris to put his story into writing (although no newspapers were sufficiently interested) and, instead, weaponised the affidavit by using it to "blackmaiil" Anne into speaking to him.

But Mike didn't get any money for his first forgery story back in June, so if he was hoping to sell a spiced-up version of it by the December, what happened? What is your source for the newspapers being approached but none of them being 'sufficiently interested'? Is this something new and real at last?

But he didn't go public with his claim that his wife wrote the manuscript until some years later. It may be that the first time he said so publicly was in 1999, more than five years after Anne walked out. That's a long time to wait to attempt to throw someone under the bus for having left him.

What's that saying about revenge being a dish best served cold?

I think Mike's problem was that it hadn't worked when it was still piping hot, so it was more a case of 'if at first you don't succeed...'.

I can't, of course, say this is definitely what happened...

Really? You sound pretty sure of yourself from where I'm sitting.

...but it seems believable to me, and has the advantage of being very simple and straightforward.

But a failed marriage is rarely simple and never straightforward. I left two of my own, but what do I know?

I have to repeat that no-one has given me any reason to think that the Barretts weren't capable of forging the diary and no alternative candidate outside the Barretts or their immediate circle has ever been put forward who could have done it in the post WW2 period.

No, you don't 'have' to repeat yourself on that score. I think we all know that you believe the Barretts were perfectly capable, but you haven't produced any actual evidence of it, or that they had the means, motive or opportunity to turn a partly used photo album, allegedly bought at an auction sale, into the Maybrick diary. I don't need to prove they did nothing of the sort. I'll just sit and wait for the evidence that they did - and I don't mean what Mike Barrett claimed they did.

In RJ Palmer's dreams, for one, he seems to have been with the Barretts throughout their adult lives, and on intimate terms with their individual capabilities back in the early 1990s. Hell, he's probably joined them on cycling tours round the moon - when he wasn't escorting the brothers Johnson to see life on Mars.

Back in the real world, has anyone whose views you most admire and repeat ever even met these people, never mind got to know anything about them as individuals? Or would you not consider that to be of any importance?

If everyone who knew Charles Lechmere in the 1880s had been asked if they thought he was capable of extreme violence, and they all said "not a chance", whose views would you take more seriously? Theirs, or some armchair theorist in the future, who didn't know the man from Adam?

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

Strange? Coming from Mike? Nope.



By all means carry on speculating about what Mike was asked, and why he said whatever he said. I've already explained why I won't be providing additional information to what has already been posted on these boards. And while we're at it, I won't be providing answers to questions that have already been asked and addressed a thousand times. I just don't have the time.



And I don't understand the logic of the point being made here. Okay, I realise that Mike wasn't exactly Mr Logic, but if he was expecting to be publicly 'exposed' as a former 'journalist' [a bit of a euphemism, but at least he didn't have a column in the Daily Mail], leading to 'very difficult questions' being asked by Shirley, Doreen et al, about why he hadn't told them, why in the name of sanity would that have compelled him to expose himself [oo-er, missus] as an active forger? Why would he not have fobbed them off instead with one of his stock answers or smart remarks? What on earth could they have done that was worse than what he did to himself by cutting off his own Scotch tokens so effectively? Isn't it a bit like asking for more offences to be taken into account, when he hasn't yet been charged with one? "All right, so I got some children's word puzzles and celebrity interviews published after Anne tidied them up and corrected all my mistakes, and I didn't tell you. It's a fair cop. I will now hold my hands up to forging Maybrick's diary and framing him as Jack the Ripper."



If you say so. I'm just struggling with the concept of Mike ever being 'absolved' if he had also concealed from Shirley and the others that he had forged the diary. How did he think it would help matters when he claimed to have done so?

Absolution is not a concept I had ever previously associated with Mike Barrett. But every day is a school day.



You say 'we' and claim this is a 'plausible' reason for Mike to confess to forgery, so nothing I could say is likely to alter that view. And it is only a view. I have explained why the logic escapes me, and I doubt that any amount of Herlocksplaining will help me to understand why you find it logical.

Love,

Caz
X

You seem to be making this more complicated than it needs to be Caz.

It's really very simple. As at June 1994, Mike is expecting to be exposed by Nick Warren as having been a former journalist. You seem to quibble with the description of "journalist" but I can't think of any other word that is better or more accurate or appropriate. By this time, he had clearly concealed this information from Shirley Harrison and Doreen Montgomery. There was no good excuse for not having told them. He would have known for sure that they were going to ask him about it once Nick Warren's article was published. And, indeed, we know for a fact that Shirley was sufficiently interested to write to the editor of Celebrity to check the position. Mike only needed to be slightly paranoid to feel under enormous pressure that his entire cover story of being a mere scrap metal dealer was going to collapse around him. If we assume that he was responsible for the forgery, it's not difficult to appreciate that the guilt of all his lies, and the feeling of being suspected by everyone of the forgery, might have been weighing very heavily on him at this time. There is a well known saying that you might have heard of: "Confession is good for the soul".

Obviously, I can't say that this is definitely what happened. It's just a theory. But I don't think that anyone has offered a reason as to why it couldn't have happened. I don't need to know the details of what Mike did or did not say secretly to Scotland Yard because that's irrelevant if Shirley and the other researchers were unaware.

[John Wheat]

A frankly ridiculous thread that just gets more and more ridiculous.

[caz]

No, I'm aware you haven't asked to see any other extracts, Caz. My point was that it would seem that Orsam does have the whole letter because he's reproduced a number of extracts. But, as I said, I haven't asked him. I's not something that's ever occurred to me to ask.

There's no evidence as far as I'm aware that Anne ever privately told Mike that his confessions were all total bollocks. I suppose that's something which remains at issue on the basis that the Barretts could have forged the diary together.

As for your theory that Anne said she was not going to be blackmailed by an affidavit which was full of lies, the problem is that this isn't what she said in her letter, at least not in the extracts which have been reproduced (and it would seem that all the relevant extracts have been made available). On the contrary, what she wrote to Mike was, "If you want to destroy the diary get on with it! Because nothing I can say or nothing I can do will stop you doing what you want to do. And writing to me saying "speak to me or I'll.....will not work.". She then added, "if you want to make a public exhibition of yourself that is your decision not mine. But don't expect me to sit quietly back and take it because I won't." So, you see, she didn't actually say that his document was a pack of lies. On the face of it, she would appear to be saying that she was refusing to be blackmailed into speaking to Mike by his threat of destroying the diary (i.e. by circulating his affidavit) and was challenging him to go ahead and do it, but that, if he did, he should expect some strong retaliation from her. Which makes it surprising that she didn't say that it was an empty threat because the affidavit was all untrue. I do agree with you, though, that she would have been too clever to admit in the letter that they did jointly forge the diary, if that's what had happened. She would have surely left that part unsaid.

So basically, none of this is evidence that Anne was involved in creating the diary - which she tried and failed to destroy physically back in 1992, and which Mike tried and failed to destroy with all his forgery claims. She is challenging Mike to do so, but he doesn't make a public exhibition of himself in January 1995, by taking his affidavit to Harold Brough, does he? If he had, I don't suppose she would have sat quietly back and taken it, to be publicly accused of writing the diary, with Caroline as a witness. But there was no need for Anne to do anything, because Mike waited until April 1999 to make a semi-public exhibition of himself at a packed Cloak & Dagger Club meeting, by which time she had moved on with her life, and all Mike's attempts to get Anne to "speak to me or I'll....." had failed to work, just as she told him in that letter.

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

Anne left Mike in January 1994, taking their young daughter with her, and Mike spent the rest of his life demonstrating how bitter and twisted he was about it.

Anne was going to leave getting a divorce until they had been separated for two years, but changed her mind due to Mike's increasingly erratic behaviour during 1994.

Assuming the decree nisi came through on 7th December 1994, that is when the writing was truly on the wall for their marriage, and within the next five days Mike showed his anger and distress by going round to where Anne was living and only succeeding in cutting his hand badly on the glass entrance, which required hospital treatment. That's just a small snapshot of a man in the throes of misery and resentment.



This is the problem of dipping into the lives of these individuals without really knowing or caring about the causes and ongoing effects of a long relationship irretrievably broken. Harris and Gray evidently had rather different motives from Mike during the period between June and December 1994. Harris was pushing Gray to get a detailed statement out of Mike about how the diary was created. Harris's immediate aim was to get his nest of hoaxers exposed. Maybe he was not fully aware of the state of Mike's physical and mental health at the time, but Gray must have been, and presumably the idea wasn't for the resulting statement to be put in cold storage for two years. But that's what happened, because Mike only put it through Anne's door, when he could have taken a copy straight to Harold Brough if he'd wanted to reinforce his initial 'confession' and be believed this time.

What is it that makes you say the known dates don't work - apart from the gap of two years between Harris getting his statement and its arrival on the internet?



But all this has been known, written and posted about for years, Herlock. My brief chronology was to highlight just a small handful of claims Mike made over the years which seemingly came out of left field, such as the real kidney Anne slapped on the diary, the scratches Mike made in Albert's watch and the sugar he added to the ink.

I still haven't been given anything like a believable motive for Mike to have volunteered a true confession to forgery at any time from January 1994. When did he ever express any credible remorse for his behaviour? When would he have been in 'the right place' to do 'the right thing' and apologise for his own role in the events? A true confession doesn't typically involve the guilty party blaming everyone but himself for his own misdeeds and misfortunes, and trying new ways to make that confession believable. It's usually a one off instance of coming to terms with one's own guilt and accepting it. But multiple false confessions could represent Mike's failed attempts to take his own misery out on others.

Love,

Caz
X

I think I already explained why the dates don't work, Caz. Firstly, you said that the swearing of the affidavit in January 1995 occurred "just after she got a divorce from him." In fact, as at January 1995 the Barretts were still married. Secondly, you said that Mike was "attempting to throw Anne under that bus for having left him". But Anne left Mike a whole year before he swore his affidavit (which itself wasn't made public) and within that period, six months after she left him, Mike didn't mention Anne's name in his initial public confession. But then thirdly, and most importantly, the idea behind the affidavit appears to have come from Harris and thus had nothing to do with the state of the Barretts' marriage.

I also think I put forward believable motives for Mike's confessions.

In June 1994, he was expecting to be exposed by Nick Warren as having been a former journalist. I don't think there's any doubt about that fact. So I'm suggesting as a possibility that he figured that the game was up and that he might as well finally tell the truth, albeit that he wanted to keep Anne's name out of it as a courtesy to her because he still hoped they might get back together.

By December 1994, he was hoping to sell his story and had already told Alan Gray about his wife's involvement. He accepted the advice from Harris to put his story into writing (although no newspapers were sufficiently interested) and, instead, weaponised the affidavit by using it to "blackmaiil" Anne into speaking to him.

But he didn't go public with his claim that his wife wrote the manuscript until some years later. It may be that the first time he said so publicly was in 1999, more than five years after Anne walked out. That's a long time to wait to attempt to throw someone under the bus for having left him.

I can't, of course, say this is definitely what happened but it seems believable to me, and has the advantage of being very simple and straightforward.

I have to repeat that no-one has given me any reason to think that the Barretts weren't capable of forging the diary and no alternative candidate outside the Barretts or their immediate circle has ever been put forward who could have done it in the post WW2 period.

[caz]

Just be clear, Caz. I wasn't making any claims. I was putting forward as one theory for Mike confessing in June 1994 the possibility that he felt under pressure because he had deliberately concealed his journalistic career (which was about to be publicly revealed) from Shirley, Doreen, Smith, Feldman, Martin and Keith and other researchers. I didn't say anything about the police.

If you're saying that he freely told Scotland Yard of his work for Celebrity and Chat, it does raise the question of why he volunteered that information to them yet had never mentioned it to Shirley or any of the researchers. I mean, if it wasn't important enough to tell Shirley, why did he tell Scotland Yard? Doesn't that strike you as strange?

Strange? Coming from Mike? Nope.

But was it voluntary? Nick Warren said he learnt of Mike's journalist career from Devereux's family. Could the police have learnt the same thing from them during their investigations? If so, did Mike only come clean with the police because the interviewing officers made it clear that they already knew?

By all means carry on speculating about what Mike was asked, and why he said whatever he said. I've already explained why I won't be providing additional information to what has already been posted on these boards. And while we're at it, I won't be providing answers to questions that have already been asked and addressed a thousand times. I just don't have the time.

I also don't see how Mike privately telling Scotland Yard detectives in 1993 about his writing ambitions and achievements meets the point I raised which was that, in June 1994, Mike was expecting to be publicly exposed as a former journalist and would thus have had to answer very difficult questions from Shirley, Doreen et al about why he had never told them this.

And I don't understand the logic of the point being made here. Okay, I realise that Mike wasn't exactly Mr Logic, but if he was expecting to be publicly 'exposed' as a former 'journalist' [a bit of a euphemism, but at least he didn't have a column in the Daily Mail], leading to 'very difficult questions' being asked by Shirley, Doreen et al, about why he hadn't told them, why in the name of sanity would that have compelled him to expose himself [oo-er, missus] as an active forger? Why would he not have fobbed them off instead with one of his stock answers or smart remarks? What on earth could they have done that was worse than what he did to himself by cutting off his own Scotch tokens so effectively? Isn't it a bit like asking for more offences to be taken into account, when he hasn't yet been charged with one? "All right, so I got some children's word puzzles and celebrity interviews published after Anne tidied them up and corrected all my mistakes, and I didn't tell you. It's a fair cop. I will now hold my hands up to forging Maybrick's diary and framing him as Jack the Ripper."

The fact that he might have privately told Scotland Yard about it under questioning after the completion of Shirley's book, wouldn't have got him anywhere near to being absolved from having concealed that information from Shirley and the others.

If you say so. I'm just struggling with the concept of Mike ever being 'absolved' if he had also concealed from Shirley and the others that he had forged the diary. How did he think it would help matters when he claimed to have done so?

Absolution is not a concept I had ever previously associated with Mike Barrett. But every day is a school day.

So I think we're back to where we started which is that Mike's imminent exposure of having once been a journalist seems to be a plausible reason for why he suddenly, and out of the blue, confessed to forging the diary in June 1994. Unless you can provide any reason why not.

You say 'we' and claim this is a 'plausible' reason for Mike to confess to forgery, so nothing I could say is likely to alter that view. And it is only a view. I have explained why the logic escapes me, and I doubt that any amount of Herlocksplaining will help me to understand why you find it logical.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Now that we've established that the Barretts appear to have divorced in the spring of 1995, I don't think one can really talk about the odds being that Mike "lied" about Anne "just after she got her divorce from him" or that he was "attempting to throw Anne under the bus for having left him".

Anne left Mike in January 1994, taking their young daughter with her, and Mike spent the rest of his life demonstrating how bitter and twisted he was about it.

Anne was going to leave getting a divorce until they had been separated for two years, but changed her mind due to Mike's increasingly erratic behaviour during 1994.

Assuming the decree nisi came through on 7th December 1994, that is when the writing was truly on the wall for their marriage, and within the next five days Mike showed his anger and distress by going round to where Anne was living and only succeeding in cutting his hand badly on the glass entrance, which required hospital treatment. That's just a small snapshot of a man in the throes of misery and resentment.

It's not only the decree absolute point It's that none of the dates work. Anne left Mike in January 1994, I believe, yet Mike didn't mention Anne in his confession of June 1994. Ike has pointed out to me in the "Hoax" thread that the reason behind the January 1995 affidavit was that Melvin Harris had suggested to Alan Gray in December 1994 that Mike put his story down in a written statement. I'm pretty sure that suggestion by Harris could have had nothing to do with the Barretts' divorce proceedings. As I've previously discussed with Ike, Mike had already told Gray multiple times in November 1994, long before the decree nisi, that Anne had written the manuscript. This was merely repeated in the January 1995 affidavit. Furthermore, Mike repeated this claim in 1999, five years after his divorce.

This is the problem of dipping into the lives of these individuals without really knowing or caring about the causes and ongoing effects of a long relationship irretrievably broken. Harris and Gray evidently had rather different motives from Mike during the period between June and December 1994. Harris was pushing Gray to get a detailed statement out of Mike about how the diary was created. Harris's immediate aim was to get his nest of hoaxers exposed. Maybe he was not fully aware of the state of Mike's physical and mental health at the time, but Gray must have been, and presumably the idea wasn't for the resulting statement to be put in cold storage for two years. But that's what happened, because Mike only put it through Anne's door, when he could have taken a copy straight to Harold Brough if he'd wanted to reinforce his initial 'confession' and be believed this time.

What is it that makes you say the known dates don't work - apart from the gap of two years between Harris getting his statement and its arrival on the internet?

And I hope this post explains why I thought it was important earlier to mention that the November 1994 and April 1999 instances of Mike stating that his wife assisted him in the forgery weren't included in your brief chronology.

But all this has been known, written and posted about for years, Herlock. My brief chronology was to highlight just a small handful of claims Mike made over the years which seemingly came out of left field, such as the real kidney Anne slapped on the diary, the scratches Mike made in Albert's watch and the sugar he added to the ink.

I still haven't been given anything like a believable motive for Mike to have volunteered a true confession to forgery at any time from January 1994. When did he ever express any credible remorse for his behaviour? When would he have been in 'the right place' to do 'the right thing' and apologise for his own role in the events? A true confession doesn't typically involve the guilty party blaming everyone but himself for his own misdeeds and misfortunes, and trying new ways to make that confession believable. It's usually a one off instance of coming to terms with one's own guilt and accepting it. But multiple false confessions could represent Mike's failed attempts to take his own misery out on others.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

The above shows the juvenile mentality of the Maybrick Diary crowd.

The Murphys inherited the watch from Suzanne's father, Mr. Stewart. He had never gotten around to repairing the watch before his retirement, but it stayed in the family's possession for years. There is no reason to doubt this, and Shirley Harrison and Paul Feldman reported it without a whisper of skepticism, and even Albert Johnson's relatives went around to question Murphy and found him nothing other an honest, candid shopkeeper.

Even so, the Diary Crowd has now decided that the Murphys are liars who received stolen goods from Battlecrease in April 1992 and kept the true origins of the watch secret from a string of subsequent researchers, lying repeatedly.

There is not a jot of evidence that this happened, but instead of having the integrity or the spines to admit that they are the ones falsely accusing the Murphys, they hypocritically and falsely turn the tables and suggest that others are questioning their honesty--which I have never done.

And Caroline Brown does this knowingly. Is it any wonder that a long string of people has simply stopped communicating with the Maybrick crowd?

One grows weary of these gaslighting ghouls.

I wonder if Palmer had to reach for the smelling salts after that little display of histrionics.

This is all very simple. Shirley and Feldman never knew about the 9th March 1992 double event, so we will never know what they would have done with that new information had they known it from the outset. I like to hope they would have reassessed everything accordingly, but maybe they would have stuck obstinately with what they thought they knew, and treated new information like something to be scraped off their boots.

Palmer knows - but naturally forgets - that I am not personally wedded to the watch coming out of Battlecrease with the diary, but the circumstantial evidence does lend itself strongly to the possibility that the timing is not coincidental.

I'm not sure how Palmer can argue with a straight face that he never implied that the Murphys had falsely claimed to have used jeweller's rouge to treat visible scratches in the watch in 1992 - scratches which he insists, with no supporting evidence - were not there until the middle of 1993.

Perhaps Palmer would treat the man on the stair who isn't there to a beer, but I'd advise him to have a mop handy.

I don't personally believe the Murphys were that mad, or even that bad.

Palmer is the one who absolutely needs these two otherwise normal individuals to have seen no scratches and therefore nothing to treat - because it would destroy his precious belief in the Barretts as the creators of the diary. It has nothing to do with what's actually true or false.

[Lombro2]

I know how it is. It would be like clicking on a thread about "New Research" and seeing the same "Old Research" being covered again and again. But maybe "The Liar Pushing Her Own Lie Didn't Actually Say the Liar Was Lying in his Daffidavit" is a new one.

Since Robert Smith owns the Diary, that might influence what he has to say. That's like reviewing your own book.

"What Stephen Knight could have been and should have been!"

Even I wouldn’t bother with it. That would be like a Barrett Hoax theorist listening to a cotton merchant’s opinion on the Diary or a Kosminski or Lechmere proponent's. But I guess if they agree, you’d be all ears.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I don't actually need to see any of those extracts, Herlock. I merely wondered if you had asked if the whole letter was available.

It's pretty obvious that none of us would still be here if Anne had written anything to the effect that she had written the diary with or without Mike's input.

It's far from obvious to me, however, in the absence of all Anne's correspondence with Mike being made available, that she didn't write anything to the effect that his 'confessions' were all total bollocks and he knew it as well as she did. Perhaps I'm just too suspicious.

It would change nothing in any case because I doubt that Anne would have put anything incriminating in writing to Mike, knowing her letters were unlikely to be safe in his hands. In that respect, the blackmail accusation is pretty self-explanatory. He delivered his affidavit through her door, hoping it would 'terrify' her into agreeing to make contact. She was not going to be blackmailed, however, by a faux legal document that was a pack of lies. He could publish and be damned as far as she was concerned. If people chose to believe his drunken fantasies, that was their problem, not hers. She had other problems on her plate, all very much connected to life on earth.

Love,

Caz
X

No, I'm aware you haven't asked to see any other extracts, Caz. My point was that it would seem that Orsam does have the whole letter because he's reproduced a number of extracts. But, as I said, I haven't asked him. I's not something that's ever occurred to me to ask.

There's no evidence as far as I'm aware that Anne ever privately told Mike that his confessions were all total bollocks. I suppose that's something which remains at issue on the basis that the Barretts could have forged the diary together.

As for your theory that Anne said she was not going to be blackmailed by an affidavit which was full of lies, the problem is that this isn't what she said in her letter, at least not in the extracts which have been reproduced (and it would seem that all the relevant extracts have been made available). On the contrary, what she wrote to Mike was, "If you want to destroy the diary get on with it! Because nothing I can say or nothing I can do will stop you doing what you want to do. And writing to me saying "speak to me or I'll.....will not work.". She then added, "if you want to make a public exhibition of yourself that is your decision not mine. But don't expect me to sit quietly back and take it because I won't." So, you see, she didn't actually say that his document was a pack of lies. On the face of it, she would appear to be saying that she was refusing to be blackmailed into speaking to Mike by his threat of destroying the diary (i.e. by circulating his affidavit) and was challenging him to go ahead and do it, but that, if he did, he should expect some strong retaliation from her. Which makes it surprising that she didn't say that it was an empty threat because the affidavit was all untrue. I do agree with you, though, that she would have been too clever to admit in the letter that they did jointly forge the diary, if that's what had happened. She would have surely left that part unsaid.