new info on the diary

[caz]

Caz

Admittedly I used to make the mistake of treating Maybrickology seriously, rather than as just a bit of fun. It's quite difficult to believe the person who wrote the Diary really expected it to be taken seriously, isn't it?

Absolutely, Chris. That's what I have been arguing for ages. I don't believe for one minute the person who wrote the diary (I don't credit it with a capital D) expected it to be taken seriously. It was a prank, a spoof, a burlesque, a hoax, a practical joke - which would surely not have been taken seriously had it emerged in the LVP, while the Maybrick and ripper cases were still huge talking points.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

James,
the suggestion was made to support the Diary with the reasons you give. But you're probably correct in giving credit to Caz for her suggestion that the phrase "match box empty" was made in jotting ideas for his poems.

Although coming from someone who isn't firmly on the Diary side yet, Caz may have stopped the chorus of "match box empty match box empty". It has a nice ring to it though.

Hi May,

I'm sorry I didn't thank you for providing that Josh Billings example. It just goes to show you can rarely tie a few short words down to a definitely ascertained source, and usually one's biases are on full display when one tries. For every supposedly anachronistic word or phrase in the diary, someone somewhere has managed to find at least one reasonable example dating back further than 1888/9. Certainly nothing in the diary would have been impossible to include until after 1987 - the magic year before which the modern hoax conspiracy theorists seem terrified to go for some reason.

My recent observations regarding the tin match box entries have all been made by me in the past, so I doubt the chorus will ever fade and die completely. Another observation I have made several times is that the line:

I showed no fright and indeed no light

has always reminded me powerfully of:

He sipped no sup, and he craved no crumb

from Gilbert & Sullivan's hugely popular Yeomen of the Guard. Interestingly, the very first of its 423 performances at the Savoy Theatre was on October 3rd 1888, just three days after the murder in Mitre Square. It's hard for me not to imagine the diary author humming the tune as he wrote that line, and it would have been perfect timing for Sir Jim, when he was meant to be writing about the empty match box (that had not appeared in the papers) and eating Eddowes's kidney for supper before sending the other half to Lusk.

I have little doubt that the real James would have gone to the Savoy with his brother Michael to see the G&S operas during his frequent visits to London. So whoever wrote the diary would have done well to include the odd reflection of their work in Sir Jim's doggerel. And if nothing else rules out Mike Barrett's hand in the diary, that surely would.

In the Spring/Summer of 1888, The Mikado was enjoying a very successful revival, featuring Ko-Ko, the Lord High Executioner, who at one point confides:

Why, I never even killed a bluebottle!

Early on in the diary, before a proposed visit to Michael 'this coming June' (ie June 1888), Sir Jim writes:

For how could one suspect that I could be capable of such things, for am I not, as all believe, a mild man, who it has been said would never hurt a fly.

Sir Jim writes of his proposed visit for June:

June is such a pleasant month, the flowers are in full bud,
the air is sweeter and life is almost certainly much rosier
I look forward to its coming with pleasure. A great deal of
pleasure.

And from The Mikado:

The flowers that bloom in the spring, Tra, la,
Breathe promise of merry sunshine -
As we merrily dance and we sing, Tra, la,
We welcome the hope that they bring, Tra, la,
Of a summer of roses and wine.

I had better stop there, before I launch into three little maids versus eight little whores - again!

Love,

Caz
X

[Chris]

Caz

Admittedly I used to make the mistake of treating Maybrickology seriously, rather than as just a bit of fun. It's quite difficult to believe the person who wrote the Diary really expected it to be taken seriously, isn't it?

[caz]

A card game would need an element of intelligence so we can rule that out for a start.

Could have been snap?

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Ah, Caz, it's almost like old times, isn't it?

Hugs and kisses

Chris
XXXXXXXXXX

Almost, Chris. But not quite.

In the old days you used to address me stiffly as Caroline Anne Morris, before giving me six of the best. Hugs and kisses were conspicuous by their po-faced absence.

I shall accept your volte-face with good grace and at face value (and not put it down to an attempt at irony).

Hugs and kisses back,

Caz
X

[Kaz]

d

A card game would need an element of intelligence so we can rule that out for a start.

So, he didn't buy it nor did he win it.... he nicked it from the back of their van!!??

[MayBea]

In reply to the Josh Billings suggestion, this does nothing to detract from the Diary. The date of the article is given as 15th October 1870. The Diary is not purported to be written until 1888. If Maybrick was attempting to include the matchbox through poetry or rhyme, he may naturally have gravitated to such a poem.

James,
the suggestion was made to support the Diary with the reasons you give. But you're probably correct in giving credit to Caz for her suggestion that the phrase "match box empty" was made in jotting ideas for his poems.

Although coming from someone who isn't firmly on the Diary side yet, Caz may have stopped the chorus of "match box empty match box empty". It has a nice ring to it though.

[lynn cates]

tempus fugit

Hello Caroline. Thanks.

Not having seen the original, I may presume time of day was indicated.

Regarding the time of day, it was early enough to give Kate time to go to MECW. (All in my last essay.)

Cheers.
LC

[bigjon]

I acknowledge and accept that graphology is not a dependable form of evidence. The graphologist who examined the Diary in 1992 was Hannah Koren. She is a forensic document analyst for a security department of the Israeli Government and has presented evidence in many fraud trials throughout Europe. I included her professional opinion of the Diary due to her extensive experience with document related cases and inquiries.

Best Regards, James

According to whom? If you look Anna Koren's website, her main list of references are letters from various former members of the Israeli government she impressed when she did her fortune telling routine on during radio shows. A phoney medium and palm reader can give you a similar performance.

She doesn't appear to have any actual forensic document analysis qualifications.

[pinkmoon]

d

He probably won it in a card game with the electricians who brought it into the pub.

A card game would need an element of intelligence so we can rule that out for a start.

[Scott Nelson]

He probably won it in a card game with the electricians who brought it into the pub.

[Kaz]

Evening everyone trust you are all well,I think caz will agree with some of what I'm about to post Mr Barrett is not capable of forging anything and there is no one stupid enough to involve him in any deception.It looks quite obvious that Mr Barrett got his hands on the diary via the pub.As we well know Mr Barrett was shifting a fair amount of booze would he sacrifice his drinking money to buy or forge a diary I doubt it so how did he get his hands on it......

I thought your conclusion was he purchased it from the electricians who worked on maybricks house?

[Chris]

Not remotely unusual when writing doggerel though, Chris. And as you can see from the line in context below, the diary author is trying out his rotten rhymes in rough first, with the verb 'was' implied, not written until the second, finished version, making perfect sense of the adjective appearing after the noun. He does the same thing with (the) first whore (was) no good:

Ah, Caz, it's almost like old times, isn't it?

Hugs and kisses

Chris
XXXXXXXXXX

[pinkmoon]

Evening everyone trust you are all well,I think caz will agree with some of what I'm about to post Mr Barrett is not capable of forging anything and there is no one stupid enough to involve him in any deception.It looks quite obvious that Mr Barrett got his hands on the diary via the pub.As we well know Mr Barrett was shifting a fair amount of booze would he sacrifice his drinking money to buy or forge a diary I doubt it so how did he get his hands on it......

[James_J]

I appreciate your responses! The poetry of the Diary is certainly intriguing and I often wonder why a forger would have chosen rhyme & poetry as a means of communicating highly significant information, [after the considerable time & effort he/she MUST have spent accumulating the necessary documentation.]

The association to Michael Maybrick and the Freemasons is very interesting! However, I speculate that the role of the Freemasons may have been focused on the aftermath and suppression of information relating Maybrick to the crimes. I am continuing to research these areas and prefer to responsibly evaluate the evidence before posting on these boards.

I thank you for all of your suggestions and shall post again with further ideas once my research has caught up with the progression of this thread! Feel free to post further questions and responses to any of the issues I have raised during my discourse!

Best Regards, James.