the diary

[pinkmoon]

[QUOTE=Purkis;310713]I have a feeling we will find out the origins of the Diary before long, but I don't think it depends on anything Mr Barrett might have to say.[/QUOTE
I have no doubt that the diary came out of battlecrease and the only link between Mr Barrett and battlecrease is Mr Barrett drinking in the same pub as the workmen from battlecrease .

[Purkis]

It might be worth while even if we just find out the origins of the diary Mr Barrett will never tell if my theory is correct.

I have a feeling we will find out the origins of the Diary before long, but I don't think it depends on anything Mr Barrett might have to say.

[pinkmoon]

Thanks Graham and hkev, I bet Robinson is cursing his timing re. Edwards and the shawl, apparently his earlier Maybrick film was scuppered by the release of 'From Hell'.
Although a recent book suggesting Michael Maybrick as the Ripper received short shrift, I think he makes an intriguing suspect when you look at the details of his life, not to mention his possible links to the Diary.

It might be worth while even if we just find out the origins of the diary Mr Barrett will never tell if my theory is correct.

[Purkis]

Thanks Graham and hkev, I bet Robinson is cursing his timing re. Edwards and the shawl, apparently his earlier Maybrick film was scuppered by the release of 'From Hell'.
Although a recent book suggesting Michael Maybrick as the Ripper received short shrift, I think he makes an intriguing suspect when you look at the details of his life, not to mention his possible links to the Diary.

[hkev]

Robinson's book is still on Amazon as a pre-order for April 2015.

There's an article here from last year:

http://www.withnailbooks.com/2013/11/jack-ripper-has-withnails-creator-bruce.html

[Graham]

I'm intrigued by the claims Bruce Robinson made way back in, I think, 1998.
Am I right in thinking that Keith Skinner's new information is related to this?

Hi Purkis,

As far as I can remember (and it's a long time ago), Bruce Robinson's theory was thought to be that Michael Maybrick was Jack The Ripper. He also said that the identity of the Ripper was known for sure by 1892 and was going to write a book about his theory which, he claimed, would be sensational. Was his book every published, anyone know?

Bruce Robinson is probably best known for writing the screenplay of Withnail And I.

I think if Caz reads your post she might be the best person to comment on what Keith Skinner actually said at The Trial Of Jack The Ripper.

Graham

[pinkmoon]

They decided to plant it into their chosen killers house on the off chance it may found... can't understand what anyone would get out of doing that

I think it was written by someone who was close to flo quite possibly some fool hardy attempt to help her with her trial but it was never used and hung round battlecrease for years I just hope one day keith skinner shares his new info with us.I think the truth will never be known because there is a chance If the truth does come out then the police will come knocking.

[Purkis]

I'm intrigued by the claims Bruce Robinson made way back in, I think, 1998.
Am I right in thinking that Keith Skinner's new information is related to this?

[Kaz]

I think the forger our forgers got cold feet and never tried to release it onto the general public.

They decided to plant it into their chosen killers house on the off chance it may found... can't understand what anyone would get out of doing that

[pinkmoon]

G'day Pinkmoon

But how were contemporary forgers going to make $$ modern ones I can see

I think the forger our forgers got cold feet and never tried to release it onto the general public.

[Magpie]

4 and possibly an element of 7

[GUT]

4 and 5 for me.

G'day Pinkmoon

But how were contemporary forgers going to make $$ modern ones I can see

[pinkmoon]

4 and 5 for me.

[GUT]

4 6 8 9 and 10 are in my opinion the only ones that can hold up.

[Dictionary Brown]

I thought about this carefully, and it seems to me that the following are the basic possibilities:

1. Maybrick wrote it and he was the Ripper
2. Maybrick wrote it but was fantasizing about being the Ripper
3. The Ripper wrote it, but was trying to implicate Maybrick
4. Contemporary forgers wrote it to provide legal help to Florence / ruin James' reputation
5. Contemporary forgers wrote it for money
6. Contemporary forgers wrote it as a prank
7. Contemporary forgers wrote it as a creative exercise
8. Modern forgers wrote it for money
9. Modern forgers wrote it as a prank
10. Modern forgers wrote it as a creative exercise

I believe after 22 years of survival of both the diary and the watch, a modern hoax can be ruled out for the time being, thereby eliminating 8, 9, and 10. I think #'s 2 and 3 are highly unlikely. #2 is dismissed because Maybrick couldn't have possibly known that the Ripper murders would cease after his death unless he truly was JTR. #3: why would the Ripper waste his time trying to frame someone else and give them historical credit instead of taking credit for his own crimes or simply leaving them in mystery? If you take any of the letters as legit, it certainly seems the Ripper enjoyed his notoriety and had an outsized ego.

As for #4, it seems difficult to understand how the diary could have helped Florence that much, since the end of the diary seems to raise the distinct possibility of her guilt. Even if it says the deceased had requested the lethal dose, and was Jack the Ripper to boot, the diary still seems to be of questionable legal help. Just because your victim is Jack the Ripper, doesn't make murder legal.

Furthermore, 4 and 5 raise the question of why the diary wasn't brought forward during Florence's trial or immediately afterward. 4 and 5 are unlikely in my opinion, but still possible. Maybe the forger(s) had an accident that put them out of commission, and the diary later simply got lost in the shuffle.

Also, if the diary was created by a contemporary to posthumously embarrass James Maybrick, it's hard for me to see why there would be any attempt to make him sympathetic or remorseful. It's a creative touch I could expect to see from a talented modern forger, but difficult to believe that it came from a small circle of contemporaries and was intended for a utilitarian goal.

An old forgery would seem to indicate that the forgers had an intimate knowledge of Maybrick and his household. It seems that that circle of people would be relatively small and fairly easy for researchers to identify compared to a planet full of possible modern forgers. Now, in that circle of Maybrick associates with the inclination to create the diary, I personally believe the chances that one of them would have an imagination as powerful as the one the diary writer would appear to have had would seem to be small.

Put another way, the chances of a modern forger emerging from the entire English speaking world over decades seems reasonably high. The chances of a contemporary forger with the same creative skill emerging from the circle of Maybrick family and friends in a matter of months or years seems rather small. In my personal opinion, of course.

So, that would leave me with 1 (the real deal), 6 (contemporary prank), and 7 (contemporary creative exercise).

If it was written as a prank, I would expect the forger only went so far as to disguise their own handwriting with no real attempt to match James Maybrick's. That would explain the handwriting discrepancy. Still, 63 pages seems an awful long way for a joke.

#7 seems unlikely, to me, but not impossible. Who can say if a Maybrick friend of the family or family member was or was not inspired by both Maybrick and JTR to write some speculative fiction just for fun? Since under this particular scenario the writing would be intended for no one else's eyes but the writer's own, it seems that it should be possible to find another example of similar casual and undisguised handwriting. I believe that if the forger was creating the diary as a private amusement, there should be many other examples of his or her writing out there. Especially if this writer was so dedicated to this fantasy as to actually scratch a confession inside a watch for the sole purpose of supporting his or her own private fiction! I believe such an individual must have left behind other creative works or was known as a writer. Again, one would think that such a person and their handwriting would be discover-able among the circle of Maybrick family and friends.