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25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

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  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    As is the idea that even a moderately educated man would say that he "frequented" a pub on a given day, when what he did was "popped into" the pub. To frequent something refers to a pattern of behaviour over time (the clue is in the word), not to a single visit. Nobody ever said, "I think I'll frequent the pub this evening" ; this is yet another example of someone of limited education trying to use a grandiose word in order to give the impression of "oldspeak" and failing miserably.
    Actually, in the interest of accuracy, he says "frequented my club" (not pub), but the same argument applies.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
      Yes Abby, it comes from Collard's list of Eddowes' possessions. I believe the diarist also alludes to the other tin boxes on the list containing sugar and tea. But it seems somewhat unlikely that a killer pressed for time would have emptied Kate's pockets, identified the contents, then put them back again.
      Thanks JR
      that alone should effectively kill it. theres absolutely zero chance of that "coincidence" happening.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • tin matchbox empty

        three unique words make up that phrase. two adjectives and a noun. with one of the adjectives placed at the end, which itself is rare. the coincidence that those exact words in that order was used independently twice has about as much chance as happening as the sun rising in the west.
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • Originally posted by John G View Post
          I think some people are having a real problem with basic statistics. The presence of the phrase "one off" has effectively killed the diary, it's as dead as the dodo, and for anyone still struggling with basic mathematical concepts here's why.

          The first recorded instance of the phrase being used in the English language, and then only in an engineering context-an industry, incidentally, that Maybrick had no connection to-, was in 1934, almost half a century after the diary was purportedly written: see OED. It would be decades later before the phrase entered everyday usage.

          Now, of it's to be argued that the phrase could have originated earlier then we have to consider the statistical chances of the person being Maybrick. Thus, between 1888 and 1934 there must have been over a hundred million people who were alive in capable of writing in English, anyone of whom could have originated the phrase. But against odds of several million to one against that person happens to Maybrick, in a diary of disputed provenance!

          In fact, the odds are even greater, because you then have to explain why there are no other recorded examples between, say, 1888 and 1934.

          Come on people, it's not rocket science. It really isn't.
          Now now, John, it's not impossible that Maybrick was a maverick linguist!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Spider View Post
            Many a Public House in the late 1800's was referred to by locals as the 'Post House', as prior to the setting up of the Royal mail many of them acted as collection and drop off points for a basic postal system.
            I believe the author of the 'diary' also errs on four occasions in his use of unnecessary letters 'e'. Quite simply a writers error. I can never see the big deal over this Post/e House malarkey.
            No, they generally weren't, unless they actually had ties to a post office. If it were true that many were known by that nickname, we'd see evidence of those names appearing in print, which we do not.

            That's also ignoring the fact that the "Poste House" in the diary is spelled in the exact same distinctive manner as the one which coincidentally resides in town, not far from where Maybrick had offices, IIRC, which at that time, didn't bear that name.

            Bearing in mind that the good people at the central library aided me in searching for any pub by that name in that year, and nothing was found whatsoever. This is something even Shirley Harrison had to contend was an issue.

            If you can't see the big deal about a pub being mentioned that did not exist, then you're frankly gullible, mate.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
              Thanks JR
              that alone should effectively kill it. theres absolutely zero chance of that "coincidence" happening.
              Especially when one considers that Collard's list was not accessible to the public until the mid 1980s. Helpfully, it was reproduced in Martin Fido's popular book, The Crimes, Detection and Death of Jack the Ripper, published in 1987.
              Last edited by Sam Flynn; 09-21-2017, 07:46 AM.
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by John G View Post
                What evidence have you got that any pub Maybrick was likely to have frequented was ever referred to ad the Poste House? By the way, "loads of pubs were known as the Poste House back then" isn't evidence.

                Coaching inns of the period may have been colloquially referred to as a Post House, however, the pub in Cumberland Street was not a coaching inn and was known locally as "The Smallest Pub in Liverpool."

                Maybrick was an educated man, not some illiterate moron. He wouldn't have spelt a simple word like "post", wrongly. That's completely ridiculous.
                It gets tiring when so many people keep making up details to explain away issues with the diary.

                Oh, there were lots of Poste Houses back then. Were there? Then show me where they were...

                From Gore's directories, to the Liverpool Echo, to detailed pub guides, to local history books, and everything in between, and the only Poste House that I've found is the one which still resides today, and didn't bear that name in 1888.

                Even when reading the amazingly detailed book, Liverpool Ways and Byeways by Michael O'Mahoney, published in 1931, we have many many obscure details about old taverns and eateries, including old pub names from as far back as the late 1700's, and yet not one single mention of a Poste House.

                It beggars belief.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Spider View Post
                  No it's not 'evidence' in so far as it's particular to Maybrick as I've no idea which PH's he frequented but it's an historical fact and of course he could have spelled 'post' incorrectly, he did.
                  It is historical fact that the Poste House was actually known as the Muck Midden, Spider.

                  When browsing the history of my city, I've yet to see one mention of another pub by that name.

                  What you're doing is making things up to benefit this error, and that's quite literally the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing as a person exercising logic and common sense.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Graham View Post
                    While I'm here the phrase that always gave me pause for thought is "Tin Matchbox Empty". Any ideas, anyone?
                    That's an easy one, Graham. Maybrick was, of course, a psychic! Why not? He drank in futuristic pubs, invented phrases, evaded the police as the world's most infamous killer, could mask his handwriting whenever he wanted... Did I miss anything?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mike J. G. View Post
                      That's an easy one, Graham. Maybrick was, of course, a psychic! Why not? He drank in futuristic pubs, invented phrases, evaded the police as the world's most infamous killer, could mask his handwriting whenever he wanted... Did I miss anything?
                      he could ride a parrot
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by John G View Post
                        It's worth noting that "Poste haste" is also spelt wrongly in the diary. The forger certainly had a problem with the very simple word "post".

                        Maybrick, of course, would have had no such difficulties. He was an educated man and almost certainly attended Liverpool Collegiate Institution, a fee paying school where William Gladstone, who would later become prime minister, gave a speech at the opening ceremony: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ybrick&f=false
                        For me, the "e" is a give-away. I think the "e" added to "post haste" was a subconscious error on the part of the writer, after having to purposefully use it in "Poste House". That implies that adding the "e" was not common for the writer, which it wouldn't be.

                        It's an error on the part of a person attempting to write in a certain manner.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                          Helpfully, it was reproduced in Martin Fido's popular book, The Crimes, Detection and Death of Jack the Ripper, published in 1987.
                          Which all ties in with a modern hoax, completed sometime between 87-92.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                            he could ride a parrot
                            Probably a dead one at that!

                            It wouldn't surprise me if he'd inspired the famed Monty Python dead parrot sketch, tbh.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mike J. G. View Post
                              That's an easy one, Graham. Maybrick was, of course, a psychic! Why not? He drank in futuristic pubs, invented phrases, evaded the police as the world's most infamous killer, could mask his handwriting whenever he wanted... Did I miss anything?

                              Ahhhh, right. I did wonder.........

                              Graham
                              We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Spider View Post
                                Many a Public House in the late 1800's was referred to by locals as the 'Post House', as prior to the setting up of the Royal mail many of them acted as collection and drop off points for a basic postal system.
                                That's interesting, Spider - but I'm not sure about the connection to the postal service. According to the OED, an archaic/obsolete definition of post-house is given as "An inn or other house where horses are kept for the use of travellers: a posting house". This seems to imply that the "post" bit might have referred to the posts where the horses were tethered. The term dates back to the 1600s, which pre-dates any sort of organised mail system by a couple of hundred years. Examples:

                                "We repos'd this night at Piperno, in the Post-house without the towne" (John Evelyn's Diary, 1645)

                                "He alighted at the Post-house to change Horses" (London Gazette, 1712)

                                "They are a sort of post-house, where the Fates change horses" (Byron, Don Juan, 1819)

                                Thanks for your interesting post(e), nonetheless!
                                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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