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25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
    Says it all.

    Bye.
    Have you totally ignored everything I've typed re: the handwriting and how it is analyzed?

    I'm starting to wonder whether you're actually interested in figuring this out or not, mate.

    What Observer said was correct, a person cannot just change their style at a whim, hence why the entire science of studying such things even bloody exists and flourishes, lol.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mike J. G. View Post
      Does his marriage certificate still exist at all? There is surely something still in existence that James put a pen to, one would think. What happened to the contents of the home after his death? Where they shared among the immediate family?


      Good question. I've often wondered why more of his handwriting hasn't been discovered.

      Even Florences's mum was asking the question, way back in the day..


      It is quite true that some books are missing. It is supposed that they have been taken away by someone interested in my daughter's downfall. We have wanted these books since my arrival in England after my daughter's arrest. If these books had not been missing much that is mysterious would have been made clear. I shall be able to tell them more about them when I see you. It is always a matter of regret that my daughter's papers and effects, as well as all the household effects were disposed of with such undue haste before the trial"

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      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
        Mike Barrett the master forger 25 years later and it's still around. Hitler diary - 6 months.
        It's not a masterly forgery.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
          Or.....it was a spelling error that he repeated, as the evidence shows when he did it with the phrase 'post haste'. As people sometimes do. But of course, that's impossible!

          It's pretty obvious that everyone who either thinks the diary is genuine or even allows of a slight possibility that it might be are all gullible idiots. Diary discussion really should be avoided! Nothing in ripperology attracts such strident bias. I should have learned my lesson and avoided this thread.
          Personally, my life isn't changed one bit by the diary being genuine or not. I don't claim to be an expert in anything but I've read all the books (including the new one unlike some) and am not convinced that it has been conclusively disproven (anywhere near so.) 'Amateurish?' - no way. Mike Barrett the master forger 25 years later and it's still around. Hitler diary - 6 months.
          I'll leave everyone to their comfortable certainty
          Herlock, something you keep avoiding is the fact that the Tavern, nor any other pub in this city, is on record as being known by the name given in the diary, besides the pub that exists today, lol.

          It's funny to see so many people talking about the Tavern, a place that no Scouser I've ever come across has ever known to be called "the Post House".

          It's all about probability, not "comfortable certainties," and as a Holmes fan, it's astounding that you show such a lack of understanding about such things, no offense.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Observer View Post
            There's an archive in the U.S.A with examples of Maybrick's hand writing.
            Really? So can you please explain why samples of Maybrick's handwriting from
            this famous archive haven't been reproduced in the various books about the Diary?

            Are you sure you don't mean Florence's or even Michael's handwriting?

            Graham
            We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Graham View Post
              Phew-wee, Mike, you're asking the wrong person. But somewhere there must still exist samples of JM's handwriting - like for example is there some kind of a Historical Society covering the Liverpool Cotton Exchange which keeps archives? I mean, my family were very much working-class (for which I forgive them...) in the second half of the 19th century, but they certainly left behind a whole lot of hand-written correspondence.

              Graham
              There does exist a record of the Exchange, but the buildings have long since changed hands and locations from the time of Maybrick, and unless any such documents were removed and kept safe, I'd be of the opinion that they're sadly lost to time for now.

              That's what bothers me, there are many records for many people from that period, including, like you say, my own family and yours.

              I find it hard to believe that a prominent man like May would have no written documents lying around, especially with all of the hoopla surrounding the poisoning case, I'd say surely some documents were taken from the house and reviewed for any signs of foul-play.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Observer View Post
                If it was possible to completely disguise one's hand writing over a 60 plus page document, wouldn't this mean that hand writing analysis would be obsolete?
                Bingo!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kaz View Post
                  Good question. I've often wondered why more of his handwriting hasn't been discovered.

                  Even Florences's mum was asking the question, way back in the day..
                  I find it hard to believe that such documents do not exist somewhere.

                  Surely such things would be taken from the house during the trial. He also had offices which undoubtedly would've contained many written documents of his.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mike J. G. View Post
                    One thing I've read is that even when a person tries hard to disguise their writing, literally using a different hand, or constructing letters in a different way, they still manage to give glaring clues away of their identities.

                    Another thing a person tends to do when disguising their identities when writing is to revert back to their own style partway through without having realized it, which is why experts tend to start from the end of a text and work their way back, and this is something that was echoed in the recent H.H. holmes show on History by an analyst studying the "Ripper letters".
                    Bingo!
                    winner winner chicken dinner!
                    Last edited by Abby Normal; 09-13-2017, 01:15 PM.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mike J. G. View Post
                      I find it hard to believe that such documents do not exist somewhere.

                      Surely such things would be taken from the house during the trial. He also had offices which undoubtedly would've contained many written documents of his.

                      Exactly 'what' handwriting of JM's are you comparing to?

                      I thought it was based on his last Will ? Which was queried as genuine as likely to have been written by Michael M.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                        'Amateurish?' - no way. Mike Barrett the master forger 25 years later and it's still around. Hitler diary - 6 months.
                        I'll leave everyone to their comfortable certainty
                        To be fair, it's not so much the skill of the forger as the effort into analysis that is evidenced here. The world had a vested interest in the Hitler diaries. Nobody really gives two turds for funding a comprehensive testing of the Maybrick diary...or is willing to put it to the rigors of testing.

                        Let all Oz be agreed;
                        I'm Wicked through and through.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kaz View Post
                          Exactly 'what' handwriting of JM's are you comparing to?

                          I thought it was based on his last Will ? Which was queried as genuine as likely to have been written by Michael M.
                          The only known forms of his supposed writing, Kaz, and IIRC, they were compared with the diary and found to be non-matching.

                          Do we have any proper evidence to suggest that James didn't actually write it?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ally View Post
                            To be fair, it's not so much the skill of the forger as the effort into analysis that is evidenced here. The world had a vested interest in the Hitler diaries. Nobody really gives two turds for funding a comprehensive testing of the Maybrick diary...or is willing to put it to the rigors of testing.
                            Nobody beyond these forums gives much of a toss about it, as you say, and I've yet to meet one person in this city who believes Maybrick was the Ripper, lol. The Hitler diaries were obviously massive news at the time, whereas this diary business barely made it onto Granada Tonight news.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mike J. G. View Post
                              The only known forms of his supposed writing, Kaz, and IIRC, they were compared with the diary and found to be non-matching.

                              Do we have any proper evidence to suggest that James didn't actually write it?

                              Honestly, its been so long since I've read the final chapter I've completely forgotten.

                              think the book is in the attic... up there tomorrow digging out some 80's putes (not Amstrads...hate em)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Graham View Post
                                Really? So can you please explain why samples of Maybrick's handwriting from
                                this famous archive haven't been reproduced in the various books about the Diary?

                                Are you sure you don't mean Florence's or even Michael's handwriting?

                                Graham
                                I'm not sure I appreciate your condescending tone of voice. However, there is a letter of Maybrick's reproduced in Paul Feldman's book "Jack The Ripper The Final Chapter" page 276. It was written from the SS Baltic, and signed Jas Maybrick.

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