Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Revisiting Jacob Levy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    There’s also the detail that Jacob Levy witnessed his brother’s suicide at a young age. Who knows what psychological effect this had on him growing up?
    I did not know this so thank you for the info! do you have a source for this

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Greenway View Post

      Very interesting. I thought the witness and suspect at the seaside home were Lawende and Kosminski. Levy looks a much better suspect to me than Kosminski.

      Pretty bold to have murdered someone immediately after being seen in the street with the victim by your neighbour (assuming he recognised Joseph).

      It would be good to know more about him!

      All the best
      Unless of course he didn't realized he had been spotted because he was too busy persuading Kate?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

        Joseph Hyam Levy didn't disappear from the records. He retired with his wife to Brighton and died in 1912.
        Hi Scott, thank you for the correction.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
          Nice commentary. My feeling is Levy is one of those suspects that looks interesting but there is simply no evidence he was capable of murder, let alone be a serial killer. For that reason I would place him with the like of Lechmere and Druitt, Hutchinson - in fact pretty much everyone else!
          You could be right here as there's nothing reported in his character from what we know that suggests anything violent but then serial killer Moses Sithole were considered polite and courteous too

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by MrTwibbs View Post

            You could be right here as there's nothing reported in his character from what we know that suggests anything violent but then serial killer Moses Sithole were considered polite and courteous too
            Hi MrTwibbs,

            "observations during his term at Stone was that his wife had complained that he almost ruined her business: "he also feels that if he is not restrained he will do some violence to someone; he complains about hearing strange noises; cries for no reason; feels compelled to do acts that his conscience cannot stand; and has a conscience of a feeling of exaltation". His wife also revealed that he was formerly a shrewd businessman and that "he does not sleep at nights and wanders around aimlessly for hours""

            Levy is very high on my list of suspects. It would be very odd if his cousin, Joseph Levy, had not recognised him if it was he talking to the woman thought to be Eddows at Mitre Square. He is a closer fit to Anderson's suspect that Kosminski, was in Stone asylum as recalled by Anderson's wife, died 3 years after MJK as recalled by McNaughten. He was likely the man referred to by Sagar, Hutchinson and Cox. The GSG was written very near the location of Sampson's shop, the man who Levy blamed for ruining his reputation. He would have spoken english like an Englishman and have a thorough knowledge of the area and fits the profile. How many other suspects have this many pointers of suspicion?

            The biggest point against his candidacy is his height.

            Cheers, George

            Comment


            • #21
              He can be placed in the east end of London during the murders which, in our sad world, immediate catapults him to the top tier of named suspects.

              I suppose the biggest weakness is his lack of provenance as a suspect at the time, compared to say Druitt or Kosminski.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Damaso Marte View Post
                He can be placed in the east end of London during the murders which, in our sad world, immediate catapults him to the top tier of named suspects.

                I suppose the biggest weakness is his lack of provenance as a suspect at the time, compared to say Druitt or Kosminski.
                Given that he was a butcher, fresh out of an asylum, Jewish and living in the area of the murders, he exactly fits the profile the police were looking at. I find it hard to believe they would overlook him. But in terms of 'life history' he looks a really good candidate to me.

                All the best

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
                  The biggest point against his candidacy is his height.

                  Cheers, George
                  How so? Several of the witnesses described a man of short stature, who was only marginally taller than his victims. Jacob Levy was 5'3".

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

                    Hi MrTwibbs,

                    "observations during his term at Stone was that his wife had complained that he almost ruined her business: "he also feels that if he is not restrained he will do some violence to someone; he complains about hearing strange noises; cries for no reason; feels compelled to do acts that his conscience cannot stand; and has a conscience of a feeling of exaltation". His wife also revealed that he was formerly a shrewd businessman and that "he does not sleep at nights and wanders around aimlessly for hours""

                    Levy is very high on my list of suspects. It would be very odd if his cousin, Joseph Levy, had not recognised him if it was he talking to the woman thought to be Eddows at Mitre Square. He is a closer fit to Anderson's suspect that Kosminski, was in Stone asylum as recalled by Anderson's wife, died 3 years after MJK as recalled by McNaughten. He was likely the man referred to by Sagar, Hutchinson and Cox. The GSG was written very near the location of Sampson's shop, the man who Levy blamed for ruining his reputation. He would have spoken english like an Englishman and have a thorough knowledge of the area and fits the profile. How many other suspects have this many pointers of suspicion?

                    The biggest point against his candidacy is his height.

                    Cheers, George
                    Good stuff. I forgot about that quote.
                    One point I should mention about lady Anderson being claimed to have said that it was an asylum near stone. Steward Hicks (R.I.P) the researcher from Norfolk is claimed to be the source of this story but was unable to recall his source which does imply that it did not come directly from lady Anderson which presents a big problem. Side note: I believe Steward's favoured suspect was a Dr Hewitt but this was later refuted. So if the Lady Anderston story did come from Hicks then he didn't have a dog in the fight because he wasn't considering Jacob Levy and probably had never heard of him at the time.

                    jacob Levy sounds like he suffered from paranoid delusions (strange voices, impulse control/limbic system problems) much like Aaron Kosminski so as some of said before this might account for cross over between the two chaps and it is possible that the City of London police had Jacob Levy on their suspect radar (despite no police file naming him?) but that doesn't necessarily mean he is JTR.

                    I agree he does fit the Detective Sagar and Cox's account quite well. However I view JTR as an organized offender and Levy like Aaron Kosminski falls into the disorganized type due to his mental health issues. A mental illness like paranoid schizophrenia affects a person's emotional brain would show signs strange behaviour and be more likely to be noticed and commented on (eg: Levy and Kosminski) , the murders would have been more spontaneous and committed at various times, and very likely more easily caught due to the evidence left behind or the inability to cover their tracks or hide the evidence. So it is unlikely in my opinion but not impossible that Jack The Ripper suffered from a mental disorder like paranoid schizophrenia whose symptoms include but are not limited to: seeing, hearing or tasting things which others cannot, having a persistent and unusual belief system, decline in hygiene, lack of motivation (not working for many years like Kosminski)

                    Last edited by MrTwibbs; 09-23-2021, 10:57 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      therefore could the butcher Joseph Hyam Levy have in fact recognized his neighbour the butcher Jacob Levy as the man he had seen in the company of a woman who he may have presumed to be a prostitute that was to be influential in causing him so much alarm? Is it possible that Joseph Hyam Levy knew the suspect and was the seaside home witness?
                      If Levy was the SH suspect I think it's much more likely that Lawende was the witness - There's little point in taking his cousin to identify him. They'd just have to ask the question 'did you see your cousin on the night of the murder'? Lawende would be the logical choice to ID by sight.

                      Joseph's reaction could be interpreted as being alarmed by the presence of his 'no good cousin', rather than offence at the presence of a prostitute.

                      All the best

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Greenway View Post

                        If Levy was the SH suspect I think it's much more likely that Lawende was the witness - There's little point in taking his cousin to identify him. They'd just have to ask the question 'did you see your cousin on the night of the murder'? Lawende would be the logical choice to ID by sight.

                        Joseph's reaction could be interpreted as being alarmed by the presence of his 'no good cousin', rather than offence at the presence of a prostitute.

                        All the best
                        After reading it all over again and learning from Abby Normal and Scott Nelson that Joseph Levy was Jacob's cousin,I'm now starting to think that Joseph Hyam Levy could not have been the witness if Jacob Levy was the sea side home suspect. Which suggests to me that Jacob Hyam Levy did not see his cousin speaking to Eddowes. As you rightly mentioned regarding the "did you see your cousin on the night of the murder?"

                        Joseph Levy's obstinacy could be put down to not wanting to get involved or being so scared by the incident.
                        "the secrecy and knowing air the frustrated press encountered in Levy was probably little more than self-importance" page 129 of Scotland Yard Investigates.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Harry D View Post

                          How so? Several of the witnesses described a man of short stature, who was only marginally taller than his victims. Jacob Levy was 5'3".
                          Hi Harry,

                          Most of the witnesses were estimating between 5'5" and 5'8", but height estimates can be tricky, particularly when a hat is being worn. I'm not saying his height excludes him, just that it is slighly less than many observations.

                          Cheers, George

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Height is a difficult one to use to exonerate someone unless the suspect was 4’2” or 6’10.” Distance, posture can all come into play. Personally I don’t see Levy’s height as an issue.
                            Regards

                            Sir Herlock Sholmes



                            "Tis but a part we see, and not a whole."

                            ”Baroni licitum est dicere troglodytam”

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              He had a criminal record which was petty theft. It’s common for serial killers to have engaged in criminal activities at a young age.
                              I can't seem to find many details on the theft, but if it's true that he had a significant amount of money on him at the time he was arrested, and that he felt 'compelled to do acts that his conscience cannot stand', I think it's probably better to think of it as kleptomania rather than petty theft.

                              I've wondered whether the killings might be some form of extreme kleptomania (at least to some degree).

                              All the best

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                                Height is a difficult one to use to exonerate someone unless the suspect was 4’2” or 6’10.” Distance, posture can all come into play. Personally I don’t see Levy’s height as an issue.
                                I agree height is difficult to estimate - I tend to give comparative heights slightly more credence.

                                It's a suspect thread so the question arises - could Levy be BS man?! His 'Lipski' shout seems to suggest he isn't Jewish, but I don't think it's impossible for a Jew to be in some sense 'anti-Semitic'. And the GSG could be neatly tied in. All very speculative of course.

                                All the best
                                Last edited by Greenway; 09-24-2021, 10:02 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X