So Cross the Ripper got involved in the investigation. Why did he stop?

[London1888]

He was on his way to work and found a women in heap either drunk, dying or dead. Being a concerned citizen he stopped to investigate and involved another passer by and a policeman. They are facts, everything else is speculation, so a thread entitled ' So Cross the ripper got involved in the investigation why did he stop ' is sheer fantasy.
It presumes Cross killed Nichols, so must have been the ripper, so must have killed all the others, so must have involved himself in the investigation of the others, but he did'nt so that is weird!

Dear oh dear. I suppose Fisherman will come back with some sledgehammer response.. It is a mountain of speculation built on the fact that Lechmere had two names, not uncommon in the east end. Some of my ancestors used different names.

No one has proved Lechmere was a 'wrong un, a psychopath or broke the law. The actual evidence as opposed to the speculation is that Lechmere was a hard working family man who raised sucessful children but nobody is interested in that, its not sexy.

Miss Marple

I normally am just a reader of this forum, and don't post anything, but I decided to make an account today just for you

You do know BTK was a stand-up family man and leader in his local Church right? Not saying Cross was JTR, but we can't dismiss him based on him being a family man.

Also, John Wayne Gacy was voted Man of the Year once in Chicago. We all know how that turned out.

[Columbo]

This thread may discuss what you're thinking of about the policeman, Columbo.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8565

That's the one! Thanks PC!

Columbo

[Pcdunn]

Detective Sgt. White's encounter near Mitre Square

Wasn't there also a report of a PC being greeted by a man coming out or around an entrance to Mitre's Square as well?

Columbo

This thread may discuss what you're thinking of about the policeman, Columbo.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8565

[harry]

It is stated that Mulshaw,after being told of the murder,went to Bucks Row,and joined the group that was gathered around the body.
So seems he was told much earlier than 6AM.
This information is from Witnesses,Nichols murder on this site.

[Harry D]

I think you may be thinking of the Nichols' murder and Patrick Mulshaw, a night porter working at the Working Lads Institute. Someone walked by just before 6am and said something like, "Watchman, I think someone has been murdered down the street". He then went to Buck's Row.

Yeah, that's the one. Thanks.

The person who mentioned a man telling him a murder had been committed was Patrick Mulshaw,a witness at the Nichols inquest.He was a night watchman,whose location that night was a board of works site,which was,in a direct line,given as only thirty yards from the murder location.The site was in Winthrop St.Could have been a short cut to Bucks Row.,so really cannot leave him out of the reckoning.

Wasn't this approximately an hour after Polly had been killed? I know people like to speculate that the killer would revisit the murder scenes for kicks, but a more innocent explanation is that this guy was a passerby and nothing more.

[Columbo]

The person who mentioned a man telling him a murder had been committed was Patrick Mulshaw,a witness at the Nichols inquest.He was a night watchman,whose location that night was a board of works site,which was,in a direct line,given as only thirty yards from the murder location.The site was in Winthrop St.Could have been a short cut to Bucks Row.,so really cannot leave him out of the reckoning.
Might appear to be nit picking,but the evidence only ties Cross,alone,to the murder site,not to the murder.

Yeah that sounds like nitpicking

Seriously though, you're right. But that's not a bad starting place.

Columbo

[harry]

The person who mentioned a man telling him a murder had been committed was Patrick Mulshaw,a witness at the Nichols inquest.He was a night watchman,whose location that night was a board of works site,which was,in a direct line,given as only thirty yards from the murder location.The site was in Winthrop St.Could have been a short cut to Bucks Row.,so really cannot leave him out of the reckoning.
Might appear to be nit picking,but the evidence only ties Cross,alone,to the murder site,not to the murder.

[David Orsam]

Blood "evidence" is - in my view - a stretch. Again, it's adjectives attributed by reporters, editors, etc

Not really, no. It's adjectives used by eye-witnesses (as reported in the newspapers). In other words, the evidence of eye-witnesses about the blood. In other words, blood evidence. We've been all over this and the problem is that the evidence is not conclusive as to timing.

[Columbo]

I think you may be thinking of the Nichols' murder and Patrick Mulshaw, a night porter working at the Working Lads Institute. Someone walked by just before 6am and said something like, "Watchman, I think someone has been murdered down the street". He then went to Buck's Row.

that may be it. Sounds familiar.

Columbo

[Patrick S]

that's starting to ring a bell with me too. I'll have to research that.

Columbo

I think you may be thinking of the Nichols' murder and Patrick Mulshaw, a night porter working at the Working Lads Institute. Someone walked by just before 6am and said something like, "Watchman, I think someone has been murdered down the street". He then went to Buck's Row.

[Trevor Marriott]

Not to change subjects but I picked up your last book and found it very interesting. I was very intrigued by your examination of the Swanson marginalia and a few other bits of information.

Not that my opinion matters but if others haven't read it, they should.

Columbo

Well thank you for the kind comments

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Columbo]

Hmmm... Sounds like I'm conflating the two incidents, but there was definitely one witness who claimed that an unidentified man passed him and made a comment about the murder.

that's starting to ring a bell with me too. I'll have to research that.

Columbo

[Columbo]

If that had happened one scenario could have been that he would have had his details taken down and would have been told that they would be passed to the officers dealing with the murder, who in turn would have visited him and obtained a statement.

So the confusion over his name could have arisen at that point.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Not to change subjects but I picked up your last book and found it very interesting. I was very intrigued by your examination of the Swanson marginalia and a few other bits of information.

Not that my opinion matters but if others haven't read it, they should.

Columbo

[Columbo]

and that is where it falls down because the blood flow evidence he seeks to rely on is in itself unreliable.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I don't think it completely knocks the idea of Lechmere being the killer out of the park, since almost all of the medical evidence for most of the victims has been called into question based on methods at the time being archaic compared to what we know today. To me it's a piece of information that is open to much interpretation and probably not as useful for our purposes, but does provide a dim picture of what was discovered by the PC. I also believe the blood evidence can be interpreted in several ways, its up to the individual person to decide which interpretation they believe.

Personally, I think it falls under two interpretations. JTR was disturbed by Lechmere and hid, so the bleeding continued as they looked at the body and found a PC, or Lechmere was disturbed by Paul and pulled down the skirts, and then they went looking for a PC and the bleeding continued. I don't think JTR left much earlier because he was finished and I don't think he ran because he thought his location was too risky. We know that was not his M.O. He killed in a backyard while a guy was taking a leak in the next yard!


Based on the scenario we created here even without the blood evidence it's still theoretically possible that lechmere could've been disturbed by Paul while in the act of killing Nichols. It's just as likely he could've just found a body but my point being is that it's possible.

Columbo

[Harry D]

PC Edward Watkins discovered Eddowes', along his beat, which took him through Mitre Square. Watkins then went across the street to Kearley & Tonge Warehouse. He opened the door and asked George Morris, the nightwatchman on duty to come to his assistance. Morris grabbed a lamp and went outside with Watkins. He asked what was the matter. Watkins then told him that another woman had been "cut to pieces".

Hmmm... Sounds like I'm conflating the two incidents, but there was definitely one witness who claimed that an unidentified man passed him and made a comment about the murder.