What did a carman look like?

[drstrange169]

The waist apron was the "dress" version.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OdJNZ_xJR_4C&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=box+cloth+driving+apron&source=bl&ots=5le7vBJZvd&sig=oAw5TYno1VWbRkN97wkjbLyW85w&hl=en&ei=gIDqSczUIqSOjAfp_ryeCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q=box%20cloth%20driving%20apron&f=false

[GUT]

I doubt this man ever delivered a pork chop in his life (even though he is a dead ringer for Charles Lechmere):


[ATTACH]17515[/ATTACH]

But you will notice he has a wrap around his waist (probably a blanket not an apron but serves the same function).

[harry]

A carman's first duty was to attend to his horse,feed it rub it down etc.So it could be a little messy,hence the need of an apron.

[MrBarnett]

I doubt this man ever delivered a pork chop in his life (even though he is a dead ringer for Charles Lechmere):

[MrBarnett]

Today, carriage driving is a very posh sport. It's participants still wear aprons, and the reasons given are that it keeps the driver warm and protects his legs from 'soiling'.

Perhaps a carman was easy to spot because he wore a very long apron designed to keep horse crap off his trousers.

[MrBarnett]

This is interesting.

http://www.victorianlondon.org/publications5/business-06.htm/

It includes this about Pickfords' procedures:


Every van has a driver and a "book-carrier," who acts as conductor and delivers the goods. At night, when his van is unloaded, and after its final journey, the book-carrier goes to his head office, and "books" his work - which means giving a detailed and statistical account of his transactions during the day. These accounts are then sent to Wood Street, and there duly filed.

[Fisherman]

the pictures of the Carmen with their sacking aprons got me wondering:

Per the previous discussion on: if Carmen didn't help load and unload etc. what do they need a sacking apron for?

That is a very good question, Abby, and I wish I had thought of it myself...!

[Fisherman]

[QUOTE=Billiou;374339]

Nope - we only know that it seems so, and that owes to how he wore it in court. But strictly speaking that only proves he wore it in court.

But if we go back to my original post, wasn't there an also indication from the witness statements that Cross and Paul looked like carmen? ie they must have been wearing aprons, as in my original question, what does a carman look like?

Which I really meant to ask, not what they probably looked like (from which we can only tell from old photos), but how did they look to the witnesses at the time?

The best guess would be that they wore their aprons and caps. Then again, the caps had signs on them at times, so maybe that was enough to point to a carmanship. There is also the time aspect to consider - maybe people who traversed the East End from east to west at that time of the day were mostly carmen, and so Mizen made his guess from that knowledge to a degree.

[DJA]

Warmth.

Some Carmen would have pitched in with the loading and unloading.

The Livery Company and the trade had become unregulated.

[Abby Normal]

the pictures of the Carmen with their sacking aprons got me wondering:

Per the previous discussion on: if Carmen didn't help load and unload etc. what do they need a sacking apron for?

[Billiou]

[QUOTE=Fisherman;374335]Nope - we only know that it seems so, and that owes to how he wore it in court. But strictly speaking that only proves he wore it in court.

But if we go back to my original post, wasn't there an also indication from the witness statements that Cross and Paul looked like carmen? ie they must have been wearing aprons, as in my original question, what does a carman look like?

Which I really meant to ask, not what they probably looked like (from which we can only tell from old photos), but how did they look to the witnesses at the time?

[Fisherman]

[/I]In other words, we know he wore his apron outside of his work hours[I][B].

Nope - we only know that it seems so, and that owes to how he wore it in court. But strictly speaking that only proves he wore it in court.

Donīt misunderstand me - my guess is that he wore it in his everyday work and going to and fro that work. But certain, I cannot be.

[Fisherman]

>>Why would he NOT have worn the beard 24 years before the pic was taken? I canīt think of any reason. Can you?<<

Far too cryptic for my poor simple mind, Fish.

You should not be too hard on yourself, Dusty - for as long as Iīve known you, you have never been at a loss to produce new takes on things.

[Fisherman]

So you think his normal routine have been wearing the apron on his way to work?

It is the best suggestion, yes. Maybe it would be easier to carry it in your hand if it was awkward to walk with, I donīt know. But his wearing it would be the number one guess.

[drstrange169]

"But how will we really know? He's not around to ask!"

... and that sums up the whole case and the nature of the attraction that pulls us all here;-)