What did a carman look like?

[Fisherman]

Do you believe Lechmere's clothes were bloody and he used the apron to cover it?

I think that any blood would primarily be on his hands and cuffs, so the apron would not be of much service in that respect.

[CertainSum1]

It is the best suggestion, yes. Maybe it would be easier to carry it in your hand if it was awkward to walk with, I donīt know. But his wearing it would be the number one guess.

Do you believe Lechmere's clothes were bloody and he used the apron to cover it?

[drstrange169]

To paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies,
"Well you would say that wouldn't you".

[Fisherman]

I know very little about modern "serialist" psychology, so I'll take your word for it.

Personally I believe applying the modern world psyche on struggling to survive Victorian East Enders a dubious line of research in general, so I listen with a modicum of interest just in case but never join in such debates.

So what do I base my notion that Xmere was probably not Jtr?

I'm pretty busy at the moment but hopefully sometime over the next few weeks I'm intending to start a thread highlighting the errors and misinformation in the case against Charles Allen Lechmere. Since writing the Rip. article I've discovered a lot more information.

God help us all. Your Rip article "discoveries" were not very useful, were they? Letīs hope itīs not along the same line of quality.

[drstrange169]

I know very little about modern "serialist" psychology, so I'll take your word for it.

Personally I believe applying the modern world psyche on struggling to survive Victorian East Enders a dubious line of research in general, so I listen with a modicum of interest just in case but never join in such debates.

So what do I base my notion that Xmere was probably not Jtr?

I'm pretty busy at the moment but hopefully sometime over the next few weeks I'm intending to start a thread highlighting the errors and misinformation in the case against Charles Allen Lechmere. Since writing the Rip. article I've discovered a lot more information.

[John Wheat]

Just for the record, I don't think the beard is really an issue, unless he posted a selfie in November 1888 sporting the full Chin Chewbacca.

And as he is in all probability innocent, it doesn't matter anyway.

To Dusty

Your not wrong.

Cheers John

[Fisherman]

... as he is in all probability innocent, it doesn't matter anyway.

Of course, statistically there is only a very tiny risk that the person right next to you is a serial killer. So in that respect, you have a point.

But this is common knowledge, and I think you must use something else to make your assertion. But what can it be?

We know that many serialists are people who have no former record with the police. So that canīt be it.

We know that many serialists live in relationships, often having a family. So that canīt be it either.

We know that the police make mistakes. So that wonīt be the reason either.

We know that serialists can stop killing. So that is not the reason.

Iīm curious, Dusty. You seemingly know something I donīt know. Enlighten me!

[Fisherman]

Too bad the apron wasn't made of leather.

On the beard issue, one would expect him to change his appearance if he were the killer, which I think was Fish's allusion.

I was more after how it would be less than useful to make the assumption that if he was bearded in 1912, it is strange that nobody spoke of a killer with a full beard in 1888, ergo Lechmere was not the killer.
However odd the suggestion seems, it was nevertheless put forward.

On the issue of whether the killer changed his looks between the strikes, I donīt see why he would if his description was never circulated. Nor is it a trait that is common with serialists. So I am not too keen on the idea.

[drstrange169]

Just for the record, I don't think the beard is really an issue, unless he posted a selfie in November 1888 sporting the full Chin Chewbacca.

And as he is in all probability innocent, it doesn't matter anyway.

[Barnaby]

Every time?

Not after every murder, if that is your question. If someone committed a series of high profile crimes and, as time passes the press reports on possible eyewitnesses, it seems reasonable that the perpetrator might attempt to change his appearance.

[Damaso Marte]

Nope - we only know that it seems so, and that owes to how he wore it in court. But strictly speaking that only proves he wore it in court.

Donīt misunderstand me - my guess is that he wore it in his everyday work and going to and fro that work. But certain, I cannot be.

So while ripping too?

[Errata]

Too bad the apron wasn't made of leather.

On the beard issue, one would expect him to change his appearance if he were the killer, which I think was Fish's allusion.

Every time?

[Barnaby]

Too bad the apron wasn't made of leather.

On the beard issue, one would expect him to change his appearance if he were the killer, which I think was Fish's allusion.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Gut,

It's called an apron. It's worn by the driver of a carriage in a very traditional sport.

Perhaps Lech. was more worried about blood smears on his midriff than horse-**** on his trousers...

Of course, we have no evidence that Lech. carted meat, but we can be pretty sure that horses relieved themselves in those days as they do now.

Gary

[Rosella]

IF carmen did load raw meat onto the carts (and we still don't know whether they did at Pickfords) surely they would carry loins, legs etc as modern meat workers do. That is, wrapped in linen or netting coverings and over their shoulders, in which case an apron wouldn't be much use? If that was the case then the apron probably was a bit of a shield against the muck and grime of Victorian streets and against flying horse poo not blood.