Lets get Lechmere off the hook!

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Tom,

We can all take an educated guess where PC Neil had been that morning, in spite of the Crossmere TV Doc avoiding the fact that PC Neil's beat included Winthrop Street.

I trust you're well and enjoying all the perks of a best-selling author.

Regards,

Simon

Yep, the lights get to stay on another month. I'm curious why a couple hours should have gone by without a copper passing Patrick Mulshaw.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

Spot-on.

Patrick Mulshaw, night watchman at the 'sewage works' in Winthrop Street, saw and heard nothing suspicious that morning. He stated at the inquest that, "He did not often see the police there. During the night he saw two constables, including Constable Neil, but was unable to say at what time he saw him."

Since it has been established that Winthrop Street was on PC Neil’s beat, Mulshaw should have seen/heard him every time he walked past, approximately once every half-hour.

Doubtless for the legions of police apologists, Mulshaw was drunk/asleep/in a light coma at the requisite time.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Hi David. Have your Islington and Camden murder books been reviewed in Ripperologist? If not, I'll volunteer for the job.

Hi Tom. No, my books have not been reviewed in any publications (I've never submitted them anywhere for review) and you are the only volunteer! Please do go ahead - and if you need review copies let me know how to get them to you.

[Chris]

Doubtless for the legions of police apologists, Mulshaw was drunk/asleep/in a light coma at the requisite time.

Either that or Jack the Ripper.

[Tom_Wescott]

Doubtless for the legions of police apologists, Mulshaw was drunk/asleep/in a light coma at the requisite time.

Regards,

Simon

Are they legion? Seems a rather finite number to me. But they are quite vocal and do have answers for everything. If only the police of today were as infallible as the Met and City Police of 1888.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Simon,

Has it ever occurred to you that Neil was not alone when he stumbled upon Polly's body? I'm not saying that's the case, but has the thought occurred to you that maybe he didn't have to 'flash his lantern' to get assistance?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

Yes indeed; it would have taken two men to carry her to the gates of Brown's Yard.

Regards,

Simon

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Tom,

Yes indeed; it would have taken two men to carry her to the gates of Brown's Yard.

Regards,

Simon

I was going straight and you just veered right. Nobody moved Polly, Simon. She died there in front of the gates. I was suggesting it was possible that Neil and Thain were hanging out together. I'm curious to know why Thain didn't want to wear his cape and why Neil wasn't spotted on his beat more often.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

Of course somebody moved Polly. It's as plain as day.

Don't tell me you believe the authorised version.

Regards,

Simon

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Tom,

Of course somebody moved Polly. It's as plain as day.

Don't tell me you believe the authorised version.

Regards,

Simon

I believe Poly was killed where found. Having said that, I'm privy to more info than what's in the authorised version.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

Many thanks for the bait.

Regards,

Simon

[Rosella]

Is there any evidence that Polly wasn't killed where she was found, asks an innocent newbie!!

[Dave O]

Thanks very much for these comments.

Perhaps I have a rather jaundiced view of police attitudes to evidence through having looked at mid-20th-century miscarriages of justice. In that later period I don't think there would have been any question of an impartial person being allowed to see police statements taken in the course of a criminal investigation. The information in them was very much reserved for the prosecution's eyes only.

Hi Chris,

To be honest, I'm sure there's a lot that I don't know about coroners' interactions with the police, and the 20th century is a time I haven't spent much time researching. And for sure, it's a learning process for me in the 19th century.

Since you're focusing on police statements here, I ought to clarify that I think most of coroners' officers working with Macdonald don't seem to have been police (two definitely were). What I see are the more common cases of overlayings, accidents, suicides, etc with few murder or manslaughter cases. In the 380 or so cases leading up to Kelly's, I don't see mutilation, stabbing, or ripping murders or another record similar to hers, where there's something like 18 pages of statements that were clearly supplied by the police. Most cases have fewer witnesses as well although there are some more extensive ones. Criminal cases, or I should say cases leading to trials, I don't see a lot.

So when I write about Macdonald commonly having some sort of statement before him I think what I see is more likely the work of his own officers rather than the police, although I believe the police must have assisted in some of them. Maybe a lot, I don't know. But having some sort of preliminary statement, yes, I think Macdonald was accustomed to having them. And working with some of these same coroner's officers, I think Baxter was too.

Feel free to drop me a line though, if you're inclined.

Best,
Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

Is there any evidence that Polly wasn't killed where she was found, asks an innocent newbie!!

No, other than Dr. Llewellyn thought that when he first visited Buck's Row because there was not a lot of blood visible. However, the blood had run down under her body and largely soaked into her clothes. There was some question as to whether she had been undressed and murdered elsewhere, then redressed and taken to Buck's Row, however it was determined she had not been undressed/redressed and was accepted that she had indeed been murdered where found.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

A suspectologist and a conspiracist met in a bar...

Coroners officers are policemen, PC Amos Simpson was one.

Monty