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  • #31
    Originally posted by SuperShodan View Post
    Lechmere is found standing near Polly Nichols freshly killed body down a dark street at 03.45 in the morning - she has clearly just been killed.
    Robert Paul thought she was alive.

    "He felt her hands and face, and they were cold. The clothes were disarranged, and he helped to pull them down. Before he did so he detected a slight movement as of breathing, but very faint." - Robert Paul Inquest testimony

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Fiver View Post

      Robert Paul thought she was alive.

      "He felt her hands and face, and they were cold. The clothes were disarranged, and he helped to pull them down. Before he did so he detected a slight movement as of breathing, but very faint." - Robert Paul Inquest testimony
      Exactly my point. Thank you. When Lechmere was there she had just been attacked and might have breathing her last breath. This places Lechmere there right at the time of death. Which of course makes him the murderer.

      And just getting back to your numerous factual errors about Lechmere and Bucks Row. You claim Lechmere didn’t have 6 addresses. Unlucky you we have the census. Here are his addresses.

      1858 Holloway Street

      1859 Sion Square

      1861 Thomas Street

      1871 Mary Ann Street

      1881 James Street

      June 1888 Moved to Doveton Street

      1890 22 Doveton Street


      I could go through your post point by point but there’s no value in that. If you have no knowledge about the basic facts then it serves no purpose.
      Lechmere is Jack the Ripper, it’s been handed to Ripperology on a plate, and you still can’t see it. You can lead a horse to water…

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by SuperShodan View Post

        Exactly my point. Thank you. When Lechmere was there she had just been attacked and might have breathing her last breath. This places Lechmere there right at the time of death. Which of course makes him the murderer.

        And just getting back to your numerous factual errors about Lechmere and Bucks Row. You claim Lechmere didn’t have 6 addresses. Unlucky you we have the census. Here are his addresses.

        1858 Holloway Street

        1859 Sion Square

        1861 Thomas Street

        1871 Mary Ann Street

        1881 James Street

        June 1888 Moved to Doveton Street

        1890 22 Doveton Street


        I could go through your post point by point but there’s no value in that. If you have no knowledge about the basic facts then it serves no purpose.
        Lechmere is Jack the Ripper, it’s been handed to Ripperology on a plate, and you still can’t see it. You can lead a horse to water…
        And he was still living at 20, James Street immediately before he moved to Doveton Street, I believe. That move would have been a significant upheaval for him.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by SuperShodan View Post
          Exactly my point. Thank you. When Lechmere was there she had just been attacked and might have breathing her last breath. This places Lechmere there right at the time of death. Which of course makes him the murderer.
          Did you even read what I wrote?

          In the OP you claimed "Lechmere is found standing near Polly Nichols freshly killed body down a dark street at 03.45 in the morning - she has clearly just been killed."

          Robert Paul disagrees strongly with your claim. He thought thought Nichols she was alive.

          "He felt her hands and face, and they were cold. The clothes were disarranged, and he helped to pull them down. Before he did so he detected a slight movement as of breathing, but very faint." - Robert Paul Inquest testimony

          Polly Nichols probably had just been killed - but that was not clear to Robeert Paul. Claiming that "she has clearly just been killed." is ignoring the evidence.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by SuperShodan View Post
            And just getting back to your numerous factual errors about Lechmere and Bucks Row. You claim Lechmere didn't have 6 addresses.
            I made no claim about how many addresses Lechmere had. Did you even read what I wrote?

            In Post #14 you claimed "As a child he lived at 6 different addresses".

            Also in Post #14 you claimed "He lived in Whitechapel all his life. 5 different addresses."

            In Post #25 I pointed out those two claims of yours contradict each other. "As a child he lived at 6 different addresses." and "He lived in Whitechapel all his life. 5 different addresses" cannot both be true.

            It turns out both of your claims are false.

            Your claim that "He lived in Whitechapel all his life" is false. The 1851 Census shows Charles Lechmere was living in Herefordshire.

            Originally posted by SuperShodan View Post
            Unlucky you we have the census. Here are his addresses.

            1858 Holloway Street

            1859 Sion Square

            1861 Thomas Street

            1871 Mary Ann Street

            1881 James Street

            June 1888 Moved to Doveton Street

            1890 22 Doveton Street
            Lucky me - the historical records that you list prove that you are wrong.

            You claimed "As a child he lived at 6 different addresses". Charles Lechmere was not a child in 1881.

            Originally posted by SuperShodan View Post
            I could go through your post point by point but there's no value in that. If you have no knowledge about the basic facts then it serves no purpose. Lechmere is Jack the Ripper, it's been handed to Ripperology on a plate, and you still can't see it. You can lead a horse to water.
            Your own sources have proved you wrong, so it's rather early for you to declare victory.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
              And he was still living at 20, James Street immediately before he moved to Doveton Street, I believe. That move would have been a significant upheaval for him.
              Moving is a pain, but calling it a "significant upheaval" seems overstated. I doubt moving from James Street Doveton Street was much more of an ordeal than his moving from Mary Ann Street to James Street.


              Comment


              • #37
                A number of people on this site have extensive knowledge of true crime beyond the Whitechapel murders. I just wondered, is anyone aware of any serial killer who was the person that discovered one of his/her victims? I am not aware of any, but my knowledge is quite limited.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                  Did you even read what I wrote?

                  In the OP you claimed "Lechmere is found standing near Polly Nichols freshly killed body down a dark street at 03.45 in the morning - she has clearly just been killed."

                  Robert Paul disagrees strongly with your claim. He thought thought Nichols she was alive.

                  "He felt her hands and face, and they were cold. The clothes were disarranged, and he helped to pull them down. Before he did so he detected a slight movement as of breathing, but very faint." - Robert Paul Inquest testimony

                  Polly Nichols probably had just been killed - but that was not clear to Robeert Paul. Claiming that "she has clearly just been killed." is ignoring the evidence.
                  this is nonsense semantic mongering of the worse sort. of course if theres a slight detection of breath means shes just been very recently been attacked and yes killed. good grief.
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by etenguy View Post
                    A number of people on this site have extensive knowledge of true crime beyond the Whitechapel murders. I just wondered, is anyone aware of any serial killer who was the person that discovered one of his/her victims? I am not aware of any, but my knowledge is quite limited.
                    they all did of course. hehe.

                    but i know what youre getting at. off the top of my head dahmer did something similar by rusing the police after he had tortured one of his victims whom he then went on to shortly kill.
                    Last edited by Abby Normal; 07-24-2021, 06:30 PM.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Lechmerians first have to prove that Mrs Nichols was dead when Cross and Paul found her.


                      -Both of them didn't notice any blood.
                      -Paul detected what might have been a faint breath.

                      That means:

                      -It is not a proven fact that she was cut when Lechmere was there till he left her.

                      -Lechmere testified: "The other man, placing his hand on her heart, said "I think she is breathing"

                      Is a guilty Lechmere going to incriminate himself intentionally and tell the police and the jury that Paul thought she was still breathing ?!

                      That sentence alone set Lechmere free.


                      Lechmere is innocent, because we don't have any proof that Mrs Nichols was cut when he left her.



                      The Baron
                      Last edited by The Baron; 07-24-2021, 06:52 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                        they all did of course. hehe.

                        but i know what youre getting at. off the top of my head dahmer did something similar by rusing the police after he had tortured one of his victims whom he then went on to shortly kill.
                        Hi Abby - I'm not sure one way or the other whether there is another situation like Lechmere's, but it would be interesting to find out how behaviours compared if there was. Fisherman speculates that Lechmere killed Nichols and chose to stay to front it out rather than flee when he heard Paul's footsteps approaching. It is a key decision if Lechmere is the killer. It seems counter intuitive to me that a killer would behave that way, but I am not a killer and consider myself mentally stable. Even if Lechmere was not entirely mentally sound, it seems much more likely to me that, if Lechmere was the killer, he would have fled under cover of darkness. His being there and seeking help from Paul fits, in my view, the scenario he describes of discovering the body. Any comparators might help, though of course forensics has developed so much since then the risk calculation would be very different now.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Lechmere should have run away and didn't stop a second to look what was laying there, at least that will convince Lechmerians of his innocence.

                          Poor Lechmere, he didn't thought, not in his most wildest dreams, that after some 130 years, there will come a group of people accusing him of being the ripper.

                          And why is that?! Because he found a woman laying on the ground, gave attention to her to another passer, went with him searching and informing a policeman! All this point to his guilt according to Lechmerians.

                          Not only that, but because he did that, he is now the prime suspect for all the torso murders too.


                          Its beyond imagination!


                          He should have run away.




                          Tge Baron
                          Last edited by The Baron; 07-24-2021, 08:53 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by The Baron View Post
                            Lechmere should have run away and didn't stop a second to look what was laying there, at least that will convince Lechmerians of his innocence.

                            Poor Lechmere, he didn't thought, not in his most wildest dreams, that after some 130 years, there will come a group of people accusing him of being the ripper.

                            And why is that?! Because he found a woman laying on the ground, gave attention to her to another passer, went with him searching and informing a policeman! All this point to his guilt according to Lechmerians.

                            Not only that, but because he did that, he is now the prime suspect for all the torso murders too.


                            Its beyond imagination!


                            He should have run away.




                            Tge Baron
                            If Lechmere had we'd be surrounded people "proving" Robert Paul was the murderer.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                              If Lechmere had we'd be surrounded people "proving" Robert Paul was the murderer.


                              Exactly, Paul should run away too.



                              The Baron

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                                If Lechmere had we'd be surrounded people "proving" Robert Paul was the murderer.
                                actually if you or baron could put together a cogent argument, or at least a sentence, it would be a miracle.
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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