It is now the modernity era of ripperology, those who have weak and funny theories will always use this tactic against you:
Give us one damn definite proof beyond any doubt whatsoever that our suspect is innocent
Diary defenders, Lechmerians, Druitties.. They use it on daily basis here.
The Baron
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Why did Lechmere get involved with Paul ?
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Originally posted by Fisherman View PostAs for Fivers, Kattrups and John Wheats efforts, I can only say that I am genuinely sad to have made them so bitter.
Originally posted by Fisherman View PostLast, but not least: There is no example of anything that functions as genuine evidence that the carman was innocent.
But even under guilty until proven innocent, there is evidence Lechmere was innocent. He had an alibi for the Chapman murder, so he cannot be the Ripper.
Lechmere also has an alibi for the Pinchin Street Torso, so he cannot be the Torso Killer.
And the Torso Killer and the Ripper were clearly not the same killer.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View PostLechmere and Paul walked on the same very narrow pavement (or so they said), and there was a lamp down at Schneiders that would have been behind Lechmere from Pauls point of view. You may try that with a candle and it would make the carman visible. Iīd say that it was only if Paul did not look ahead that he could have missed Lechmere visually.
We know Pail saw Lechmere in front of him - Paul testified that he saw Lechmere. We don't know how far away Lechmere was when Paul saw him - nobody asked Paul.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View PostThey were 30-40 yards apart, according to Lechmere.
According to Lechmere - "He discerned on the opposite side something lying against the gateway, but he could not at once make out what it was. He thought it was a tarpaulin sheet. He walked into the middle of the road, and saw that it was the figure of a woman. He then heard the footsteps of a man going up Buck's-row, about forty yards away, in the direction that he himself had come from."
According to Paul - "...as he was going to work at Cobbett's-court, Spitalfields, he saw in Buck's-row a man standing in the middle of the road."
We know Paul saw Lechmere in front of him - Paul said so. We don't know how far that distance was - nobody asked Paul.
We don't know if Paul heard Lechmere before he saw him. Nobody asked Paul about that, either.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View PostHe didnīt have a work uniform. He had clothing that made Mizen reason that he was probaly a carman, not a uniform that said "Pickfors carman".
Lechmere was definitely wearing his work uniform. He had on the "rough sack apron" of a carman. His hat might not have said "Pickfords", but it was the distinctive hat worn by carmen. When wearing it, even people that did not know Lechmere (Mizen, Paul, the reporter at the Inquest) instantly recognized him as a carman. Lechmere was on his way to work in his work uniform, which would make him easier to identify. If anyone had seen him committing a crime, he almost certainly would have been identified as a carman. That would have greatly reduced the suspect list. Which is another reason why Lechmere is unlikely to have killed Nichols. He would have been taking a much larger and pointless risk of being caught if he had tried to commit a crime while wearing his work uniform.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View PostBeing aware that murder is a capital offence is reason for everybody never to kill. And what happens?
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Originally posted by SuperShodan View PostThe opinion of Dr Andy Griffiths former head of Sussex Murder Squad.
‘If the Polly Nichols murder was being handled today Charles Lechmere would come under intense scrutiny.’
“From a police point of view the person who finds a body in circumstances like this is always going to be significant to an enquiry”
“Certainly in the modern age you couldn’t prosecute anyone else without eliminating him (Lechmere) first...because obviously you’ve got somebody who’s been with the body very close to the point of death, and possibly is the person who causes the death, so he is definitely a very significant person in terms of the investigation”
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Originally posted by SuperShodan View PostMoving on, nobody involved in the case picked up that Lechmere left for work at 03.20, and is found next to a freshly killed body at 03.45. Bucks Row is at most 7 minutes away from Lechmere’s home at 22 Doveton Street so Lechmere should have been there around 03.27. What exactly has be being doing for 18 minutes until Paul turns up at 03.45 ?
There was no 18 minute gap. Lechmere said he left for work at 3:30am, not 3:20am. The walk from 22 Doveton Street to where Stride's body was found takes about 10 minutes, not the 7 or less that you claim. That puts Lechmere there at 3:40am, not 3:27am.
Robert Paul said he left home "just before a quarter to four".
Paul's timing disagrees with those of the various police officers.
* PC Neil said he found Nichols body about about 3:45am.
* PC Mizen said he met Paul and Lechmere at 3:45am.
* PC Thain said he was signaled by PC Neil at 3:45am.
So either all three police officers were wrong about the time and those events happened around 3:50am or Robert Paul was wrong and he and Lechmere found Nichols body around 3:40am, which matches the time Lechmere gave. Lechmere might have had a minute or two alone, at most, which might be barely enough time to inflict the wounds done to Nichols.
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The "exactly" quote comes from The Lloyds Weekly newspaper 2/9/88. It features an interview with Paul who makes some very strange claims in it, which later recants under oath.
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Originally posted by Fiver View Post
Every newspaper account I can find has Paul saying he left home "just before a quarter to four". I am unable to find any account where Paul gave a time that he entered Buck's row, let alone said "exactly."
Paul's timing disagrees with those of the various police officers.
* PC Neil said he found Nichols body about about 3:45am.
* PC Mizen said he met Paul and Lechmere at 3:45am.
* PC Thain said he was signaled by PC Neil at 3:45am.
So either all three police officers were wrong about the time and those events happened around 3:50am or Robert Paul was wrong and he and Lechmere found Nichols body around 3:40am. Lechmere estimated he left home around 3:30am, which would have had him reach Nichol's body around 3:40am, so his timing agrees with the 3 police officers and disagrees with Paul's timing.
Baxter said "The time at which the body was found cannot have been far from 3.45 a.m., as it is fixed by so many independent data." That acknowledges that all five accounts are close, but is not a certification that Paul was right about the time and the police officers were wrong.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View PostI donīt think that any of the PCs revealed the source of their time estimates. I think Paul is the best source we have, since he said that it was "exactly" 3.45 as he came into Bucks Row. He was late and so he had reason to keep close track of the time. He also said at the inquest that "on the morning of the murder I left home just before a quarter to four." (Morning Advertiser), meaning that there is a consistency in his testimony. Add to this the fact that coroner Baxter ended up at a view of how the carmen would have found the body at 3.45 since that tallied with the testimony given by various independent sources, and that the latest police report we know of, from October, has Swanson telling us that the carmen found the body at 3.45.
Paul's timing disagrees with those of the various police officers.
* PC Neil said he found Nichols body about about 3:45am.
* PC Mizen said he met Paul and Lechmere at 3:45am.
* PC Thain said he was signaled by PC Neil at 3:45am.
So either all three police officers were wrong about the time and those events happened around 3:50am or Robert Paul was wrong and he and Lechmere found Nichols body around 3:40am. Lechmere estimated he left home around 3:30am, which would have had him reach Nichol's body around 3:40am, so his timing agrees with the 3 police officers and disagrees with Paul's timing.
Baxter said "The time at which the body was found cannot have been far from 3.45 a.m., as it is fixed by so many independent data." That acknowledges that all five accounts are close, but is not a certification that Paul was right about the time and the police officers were wrong.
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Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
Off topic here, (sorry Wolf), but how come Doyle gets quoted as the pinnacle of rational thought and reason? The guy believed in paper fairies and all manner of other nonsense. He could write a good reason, but he sure didn't practice it. There's an enigma.
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Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
And of course, if there was a lamp outside Schneiders that did shine, it would be odd in the extreme if Neil only spoke of a Bucks Row/Brady Street lamp more than a 100 yards away whilst ommitting to mentionthe Schneiders lamp.
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Originally posted by caz View Post
Weird. You are the second Fisherman fan to read my post and find fault, without bothering to read his. I was quoting directly from Fish, so if he meant 'against', he should not have written 'for'.
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