Why is the possibility of Lechmere interrupting the ripper so often discarded?

[John Wheat]

just various thoughts around this discovery. plenty more of them .
i really would like to know what the police net actually was and consists of in man power and tactics they employed to catch JTR.
i read this in perhaps Sugdens book recently or here in thread, officials disbelief JTR had got through there NET, i presume a spiders web of bobbys at least.

any threads here to send me to !

Fair enough. I think we can only guess at what the police net actually looked like and tactics employed to catch JTR. I'm sure someone on the site will have more of an idea about this sort of thing than I do.

[The Rookie Detective]

Can someone please confirm the most accurate timings possible for the last policeman to have walked past the murder site BEFORE Nichols was killed?

[The Rookie Detective]

I ask because I think there's a tendency to look at things from the wrong perspective.

Let's set aside Paul finding Lechmere standing close to Nichols because that's a fact we already know.

The main focus to either strengthen or negate Lechmere as a suspect is to work out the exact time frame from when the last policeman walked past the murder site up to the point that Lechmere claims to have found the body.

We need the widest parameters of time possible so that we know that a time frame outside of those parameters is impossible.

Let's focus on Lechmere's behaviour.

If he is innocent, then he has no reason to run... He doesn't run.

If he is guilty, then it would initially be fair to say that it doesn't make logical sense why he didn't run?!....BUT, here's the rub...

There's actually a perfect reason why he STILL wouldn't have run when he heard Paul approaching... and that is if he had waited for the last policeman to have walked past the site and then slain Nichols with the knowledge he had a certain time frame before another policeman would pass by...

And so... let's imagine he has waited for the policeman to walk past, slain Nichols, but then as he's in the process of mutilating her, he hears Paul...but he CAN'T run because he knows that a policeman has only passed through minutes before and to run in the same direction that the policeman has traveled coupled with the knowledge that Paul would most likely see the body, he would have been physically trapped between Paul approaching and the policeman who he knew had passed by minutes before.

Adding to that scenario, let's imagine that Lechnere DIDN'T murder Nichols. It would mean the real killer had to of slain Nichols BETWEEN the last policeman leaving the street to the point when he would of heard LECHMERE approaching. (Lechnmere would of heard Paul and so the real killer would of heard Lechmere by the same token)


So the REAL question is... What is the longest possible timeframe BEWTEEN the last Policeman walking past and clearing the street, to the point when the killer had heard Lechmere approaching AND had already left the scene BEFORE Lechmmere arrived? (Lechmere never mentioned seeing anyone else)

I would hypothesize that if the time between the last policeman having cleared the street to the point when the killer had left the scene before Lechmere arrived is less than 5 minutes, then it would make it much less likely that Lechmere was innocent.

I'm on the fence with this one, but what is more plausible?

A) A Policeman passes by the murder site, the unidentified killer arrives with Nichols and he kills her, he hears Lehmere coming and runs, Lechmere arrives and sees the body, Paul arrives and sees Lechmere...

OR...

B) A Policeman passes by the murder site, Lechmere arrives with Nichols, he kills her, he hears Paul but can't run because he knows a Policeman has recently passed by, Paul arrives and sees Lechnmere


Thoughts Please?

If there's time then there's time, but if there isn't the time, then Lechmere looks like a very interesting suspect indeed

[Doctored Whatsit]

I ask because I think there's a tendency to look at things from the wrong perspective.

Let's set aside Paul finding Lechmere standing close to Nichols because that's a fact we already know.

The main focus to either strengthen or negate Lechmere as a suspect is to work out the exact time frame from when the last policeman walked past the murder site up to the point that Lechmere claims to have found the body.

We need the widest parameters of time possible so that we know that a time frame outside of those parameters is impossible.

Let's focus on Lechmere's behaviour.

If he is innocent, then he has no reason to run... He doesn't run.

If he is guilty, then it would initially be fair to say that it doesn't make logical sense why he didn't run?!....BUT, here's the rub...

There's actually a perfect reason why he STILL wouldn't have run when he heard Paul approaching... and that is if he had waited for the last policeman to have walked past the site and then slain Nichols with the knowledge he had a certain time frame before another policeman would pass by...

And so... let's imagine he has waited for the policeman to walk past, slain Nichols, but then as he's in the process of mutilating her, he hears Paul...but he CAN'T run because he knows that a policeman has only passed through minutes before and to run in the same direction that the policeman has traveled coupled with the knowledge that Paul would most likely see the body, he would have been physically trapped between Paul approaching and the policeman who he knew had passed by minutes before.

Adding to that scenario, let's imagine that Lechnere DIDN'T murder Nichols. It would mean the real killer had to of slain Nichols BETWEEN the last policeman leaving the street to the point when he would of heard LECHMERE approaching. (Lechnmere would of heard Paul and so the real killer would of heard Lechmere by the same token)


So the REAL question is... What is the longest possible timeframe BEWTEEN the last Policeman walking past and clearing the street, to the point when the killer had heard Lechmere approaching AND had already left the scene BEFORE Lechmmere arrived? (Lechmere never mentioned seeing anyone else)

I would hypothesize that if the time between the last policeman having cleared the street to the point when the killer had left the scene before Lechmere arrived is less than 5 minutes, then it would make it much less likely that Lechmere was innocent.

I'm on the fence with this one, but what is more plausible?

A) A Policeman passes by the murder site, the unidentified killer arrives with Nichols and he kills her, he hears Lehmere coming and runs, Lechmere arrives and sees the body, Paul arrives and sees Lechmere...

OR...

B) A Policeman passes by the murder site, Lechmere arrives with Nichols, he kills her, he hears Paul but can't run because he knows a Policeman has recently passed by, Paul arrives and sees Lechnmere


Thoughts Please?

If there's time then there's time, but if there isn't the time, then Lechmere looks like a very interesting suspect indeed

PC Neil passed by at about 3. 15 am and saw nothing. None of the street occupants, the night watchmen, a police officer at the station nearby, and the one or two residents who were awake claimed to have heard any sounds. The exception being Harriet Lilley at no. 7 who reported gasps and a moan, the sounds muffled by a passing luggage train. This was timed at appx 3. 30 am. Murder at about 3. 30 am therefore seems the likeliest option, about 10-12 minutes before Lechmere arrived.

[The Rookie Detective]

PC Neil passed by at about 3. 15 am and saw nothing. None of the street occupants, the night watchmen, a police officer at the station nearby, and the one or two residents who were awake claimed to have heard any sounds. The exception being Harriet Lilley at no. 7 who reported gasps and a moan, the sounds muffled by a passing luggage train. This was timed at appx 3. 30 am. Murder at about 3. 30 am therefore seems the likeliest option, about 10-12 minutes before Lechmere arrived.

Your post is brilliant because it brings everything into context.

So based on that data, I am going to hypothesize...


The killer and Nichols arrive at the murder site around 3.20am to 3.25am.

The killer doesn't intend to stay long because the longer he stays, the riskier the chances of getting caught.

The witness Harriet Lilley at no.7 hears the murder taking place, because who else would she have heard around the same time the murder took place?

JTR uses the noise generated by the train to attack Nichols

The gasp comes from the point when he surprises her and grabs her throat and subdues her...By bringing her to the point of near unconsciousness.

And the moaning is possibly her bleeding out from her throat as she tried to raise the alarm


JTR then teases in a later letter when he underlines the word wrong "TRACK"

Did he make his escape over the fence and onto the train line? What's the height/gradient?



But i digress...

So that leave around 10 minutes for the killer to leave the scene BEFORE Lechmere arrives?

For me, the killing doesn't seem finished and it's almost certain that he didn't finish what he wanted to do to Nichols. That may suggest he heard Lechmere approaching and fled?

Why leave early if he's not finished?


The timings here seem to help Lechmere's case for innocence, but something just doesn't ring true.