Charles Lechmere, finally vindicated, proof ?

[Rubyretro]

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then there is the guy who claimed a connection to do with the stride murder (I forget who)

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Nathan Shine.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Lechmere,

I'm sorry if my queries are bothering you somewhat, but I'm not deliberately setting out to get you hot under the collar!

Ok there are also photos of his kids a out ten years later, done up to the nines
There were not dirt poor. Get used to it - not everyone on the east end was

Point taken...but that was, after all, ten years on...a lot can happen in ten years...Ellen, for example could have been out at work supplementing the family income by then...but in those early years I don't suppose money flowed all THAT freely in a carman's family...particularly if they're already squirelling some money away for the future...

To show how patient I am - as a carman he would have not been able to go to work first and fit in a little work as a carman's job took him all over the place - they got stuck in traffic, they were often kept waiting hours while making deliveries - that sort of thing. The work did not lend itself to popping out to attend an Inquest.

That would depend on what sort of deliveries he was fulfilling that day, and what sort of arrangement he'd made with his firm regarding his absence...and that I'm afraid we simply don't know. Speculatively they might've pencilled him in for local deliveries only that day, or some petty maintenance task ...but in truth we simply don't know...

Also once in attendance he would not have been able to just disappear once his testimony was over as he may have been recalled.

You should be able to work that out without me spelling it out anyway.

I know that...You know that...but Cross didn't have had the benefit of our hindsight did he? I worded my posting carefully to reflect that:
"he may've anyway been anticipating going in to do at least a part days work"
Are you sure you might not be reading too much into the way a man dresses?

As I said I try not to make unsupported statements so check Robert paul's second press interview ( after his belated appearance at the inquest).

I assume we're talking about the one (Lloyds I think) where he moans about having to pay five shillings per day to a substitute so as to keep his place? With respect I'm not sure comparing two carmen working for different firms, and doubtless in different financial circumstances is all that helpful...and for all we know the five shillings might represent more than a days pay - a premium for hiring in somebody at short notice for example...

It occurs to me that if Cross had to make a similar arrangement, then that's even more of an incentive (in his mind) to get back to work as quickly as possible...

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Examples

Toppy for starters - then there is the guy who claimed a connection to do with the stride murder (I forget who). At the time there was violenia or whatever he was called. Examples are not difficult to find.
And if you have lived in the East End it is part if the wall paper.

Hi Lechmere,

I'll re-post the question:

Do we have many examples of people bragging that their relatives had a ripper connection?

Toppy & Violenia don't fit.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Lechmere]

Toppy for starters - then there is the guy who claimed a connection to do with the stride murder (I forget who). At the time there was violenia or whatever he was called. Examples are not difficult to find.
And if you have lived in the East End it is part if the wall paper.

[Bridewell]

Yes people did like the ripper connection as it was a talking point - a bragging point - totally unlike the examples you gave

Do we have many examples of people bragging that their relatives had a ripper connection?

[Lechmere]

To show how patient I am - as a carman he would have not been able to go to work first and fit in a little work as a carman's job took him all over the place - they got stuck in traffic, they were often kept waiting hours while making deliveries - that sort of thing. The work did not lend itself to popping out to attend an Inquest.

Also once in attendance he would not have been able to just disappear once his testimony was over as he may have been recalled.

You should be able to work that out without me spelling it out anyway.

As I said I try not to make unsupported statements so check Robert paul's second press interview ( after his belated appearance at the inquest).

[Lechmere]

Ok there are also photos of his kids a out ten years later, done up to the nines
There were not dirt poor. Get used to it - not everyone on the east end was

[Lechmere]

Yes people did like the ripper connection as it was a talking point - a bragging point - totally unlike the exames you gave

[Cogidubnus]

It is somewhat tiresome having to repeat things dozens of times to the same people.

Yes, isn't it...

We know Charles lechmere paid for his numerous children to be baptised. We know from Paul that carmen werent that badly paid . We know that Lechmere saved enough to open a grocers shop. We know he left a decent sum in his will.

Yes he baptised his children...so did my family and as casual dock labourers they were perpetually skint...And the famous grocers shop - now do you suppose he scrimped and saved that money, making economies as he went, or accumulated it easily?

There are things there to back up the contention that he would have had another suit.

And these are....?

The idea that he may have popped to work after the inquest is rot that has been dealt with before.

Is it such rot? Why so?

Your fireside tales of bogey men are very interesting but everyone I know from that area who has any claim to anything to do with past East End misdeeds rigerously grasps it - with advantages. That cog is how east end folk are- not scardy types hiding under their bed sheets.

That is NOW...there's no shame NOW...but go back 70, 80, 90 years and would the attitude be the same...I doubt it...my mother was born in the Raine Street workhouse and was so ashamed of it she never talked about it. We eventually discovered it on a birth certificate, and asked...she still refused to discuss it...respectable folk were ashamed of having been poor, ashamed of their fathers who drank, ashamed of criminals in the family, ashamed of grandmothers forced to hawk their bodies, ashamed of their very impoverished roots...you think they'd be proud of a JtR connection (no matter how tenuous)? For my part, I don't really think so...

All the best

Dave

[Lechmere]

By the way Charles Lechmere lived about 7 minutes walk from where the inquest was held - that is my walking speed by the way and none too hurried - he could have easily popped home to change.

By the way that whole argument about walking speeds. In any normal conversation you could say such and such a place is so many minutes walk away and it would be accepted. It may vary obviously a little from person to person.
Only on this forum and only on a Lechmere thread would a 'nay sayer' indulge in a ridiculous level of argument to dispute the perfectly reasonable contention that Charles Lechmere would take around 7 minutes to get from his house to Browns Stable Yard.

[Lechmere]

Cog
It is somewhat tiresome having to repeat things dozens of times to the same people.
We know Charles lechmere paid for his numerous children to be baptised. We know from Paul that carmen werent that badly paid . We know that Lechmere saved enough to open a grocers shop. We know he left a decent sum in his will.
There are things there to back up the contention that he would have had another suit.
Unlike the dross that is put out by team naysayer (the term team lechmere was ironically coined by a naysayer, but that naysayer seems to me to be slipping in his previous illogical naysayer faith - for such is what it is), I back up my supposition with contributory evidence.

The idea that he may have popped to work after the inquest is rot that has been dealt with before.

Your fireside tales of bogey men are very interesting but everyone I know from that area who has any claim to anything to do with past East End misdeeds rigerously grasps it - with advantages. That cog is how east end folk are- not scardy types hiding under their bed sheets.

[Cogidubnus]

There is no volte face - to suggest it is a little silly.
A beat copper not doing his job right or failing to get evidence properly is one thing. Giving immunity over an address at an inquest and telling a journalist that address at the same Inquest is quite another.
Or am I being unreasonable here?

What you seem to be saying is that when it suits your argument, the police were incompetent, but when it doesn't they simply couldn't have been THAT incompetent...Now I'm sure that's not what you mean to convey, but I'm afraid it's what often comes alechmere...

All the best

Dave

[Sally]

I wonder why 'naysayers' (aka opponents) get put into 'camps' whilst the self-styled 'Team Lechmere' gets to be in a team.

Any thoughts, Fisherman?

[Bridewell]

Just a small point, but this is a thread which postulates that Cross/Lechmere was innocent so, for the purposes of this thread, "naysayers" are those who deny that this was the case.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

If you take the time to once again read through what I posted, you will find that I say that I am of the meaning that the more potential pointers to guilt we find, the more we need to be wary of the possibility that he was the killer. It is very simple and basic - people who are not guilty of something, normally wont collect potential pointers to guilt by the dozens.

And I'm merely pointing out, in a generalised way, that a lot of these so-called pointers to Lechmere's guilt could equally point to his innocence...you want me to start exhaustingly itemising them again or are you satisfied we've been through them?

All the best

Dave