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So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel?

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  • Originally posted by Batman View Post
    Why is "being found" standing beside a victim a better candidate than someone who was beside the victim and left her there without telling anyone! We know JtR does this for sure! We don't know JtR hangs around his victims at all. We know civilians and PCs discover his victims though, but they report it. Cross, he doesn't and then blames the dark when confronted with it! See how sinister this is!

    Crow was a licenced cab driver who likely drove around Whitechapel. Your claim is that the major routes are going passed murder sites. Well, then you need Crow as a licenced cab driver not going down any major routes ever to rule him out of the same claims you have for Cross.

    He is a cabby. He goes more places than Cross can be accounted for. Crow is a better candidate there for your Thames Torso killer. Dumping torsos from his cab and all.
    Since both Cross and Crow drove vehicles, I'm struggling to understand why you think that gives Crow the edge as Torso man. Particularly if Cross carried horse-flesh or butchers meat in the back of his vehicle.

    Crow was only 21, who knows how long he had been a cabby, or where he was based. He may have worked the more lucrative City or West End.

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    • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
      Was he found by the side of a freshly killed victim?

      Did he have a proven trek that would take him close to or past the murder sites?

      Did he have links to St Georges and the Mitre Street area?

      Was he in disagreement with the police over what was said?

      Did he call himself P Hantom instead of Crow at the inquest?

      Is it impossible to kill during a trek through Spitalfields? Must you be off work to be a killer? Was Paul Ogorzow told about this?

      Crow is not a bid at all, Jon. Let alone a good one.
      Crow had once lived in Ellen Street, which ran along the bottom of Berner Street. As to whether he had any 'connections' there in 1888, I don't know.

      I imagine he was found during the house-to-house of GYB, so there wouldn't have been much opportunity for him to give a false name.

      I believe my own family were at either no. 22 or no. 21 GYB at the time, so presumably they were also questioned. My grandad later lived in Angel Alley and Mary Ann Street, from where he married a woman who was living in Pinchin Street and who had been born in Breezer's Hill. The family lived in Flower and Dean Street on and off between the 1870s and the early 1900s.

      I imagine that mixture of connections to Spitalfields, Whitechapel and St Georges would have been quite common.
      Last edited by MrBarnett; 11-13-2018, 06:19 AM.

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      • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
        Crow was only 21, who knows how long he had been a cabby, or where he was based. He may have worked the more lucrative City or West End.
        It doesn`t really matter, Gary
        The important fact is that he had finished work when the murders were committed.

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        • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
          It doesn`t really matter, Gary
          The important fact is that he had finished work when the murders were committed.
          We are considering whether he may have had 'links' to the other murder sites. That's one of the arguments put forward for Lechmere.

          When do you think Tabram was killed?

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          • We don't know whether the police called at Lechmere's home to check his timings with his wife (probably not) but it's very likely that Crow's father would have been interviewed.

            George Crow does not appear on the 1888 electoral roll for GYB. So possibly the family only moved there in 1888.
            Last edited by MrBarnett; 11-13-2018, 06:21 AM.

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            • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
              It doesn`t really matter, Gary
              The important fact is that he had finished work when the murders were committed.
              That's a very good point, Jon. Also Mitre Square is not on a direct route to Old Broad Street from Doveton Street. It's close by, but then just about everywhere in Whitechapel and The City is close by everywhere else in Whitechapel and The City, so that gets us nowhere.

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              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                Since both Cross and Crow drove vehicles, I'm struggling to understand why you think that gives Crow the edge as Torso man. Particularly if Cross carried horse-flesh or butchers meat in the back of his vehicle.

                Crow was only 21, who knows how long he had been a cabby, or where he was based. He may have worked the more lucrative City or West End.
                21-year-old Crow vs 39-year-old Cross.

                Which is the better JtR candidate based on age?
                Bona fide canonical and then some.

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                • Originally posted by John G View Post
                  That's a very good point, Jon. Also Mitre Square is not on a direct route to Old Broad Street from Doveton Street. It's close by, but then just about everywhere in Whitechapel and The City is close by everywhere else in Whitechapel and The City, so that gets us nowhere.
                  Crow said his usual time for getting home was 3.30.

                  Cross had previously lived in James Street, St Georges. His route to work then may well have been along Houndsditch. Assuming, of course he had worked at Broad Street since starting at Pickfords in the 1860s.

                  As mentioned before, Pickfords had utilised the goods depot at Haydon Square and they had a receiving office in Half Moon Passage. Those two places lay between Mitre Square and Goulston Street.

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                  • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                    21-year-old Crow vs 39-year-old Cross.

                    Which is the better JtR candidate based on age?
                    A very interesting question, but on the wrong thread.

                    We could also discuss family backgrounds, if it were not off topic.

                    So why do you think CAL’s cart wasn’t suitable for the carrying of body parts and the dumping of them on the west side of town?

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                    • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                      When do you think Tabram was killed?
                      The Doctor said at 5.30 she`d been dead some 3hrs, so about 2.30am.

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                      • Originally posted by John G View Post
                        That's a very good point, Jon. Also Mitre Square is not on a direct route to Old Broad Street from Doveton Street. It's close by, but then just about everywhere in Whitechapel and The City is close by everywhere else in Whitechapel and The City, so that gets us nowhere.
                        Thanks John, and GY is also a good fit for the GSG.

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                        • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                          The Doctor said at 5.30 she`d been dead some 3hrs, so about 2.30am.
                          Yes, that’s what I thought, so a good hour before Crow arrived home. The doc could’ve been out an hour or so, though.

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                          • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                            Thanks John, and GY is also a good fit for the GSG.
                            I have no idea what relevance Mitre Square not being on a direct route from Doveton Street (Mile End) to Broad Street has to the discussion.

                            Fish’s thinking is that Eddowes was killed on CAL’s day off and his familiarity with the Mitre Square area can from it being close to the route he would likely have taken before he moved to Doveton Street in 1888. A route he may have taken for over twenty years.

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                            • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                              21-year-old Crow vs 39-year-old Cross.

                              Which is the better JtR candidate based on age?
                              based on witness descriptions-probably lech
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

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                              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                                Yes, that’s what I thought, so a good hour before Crow arrived home. The doc could’ve been out an hour or so, though.
                                Possibly, and Crow could have lied about the time he walked thru the door.

                                It`s interesting that The Crow (even the name is sinister) didn`t know if Tabram was dead or sleeping when he passes her, yet Reeves notices she is lying in a pool of blood.

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