Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[lynn cates]

Kos

Hello Simon.

"Get a grip."

Addressed to Kosminski, perhaps? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

And in fact has just tweeted:
https://twitter.com/JariLouhelainen/...52325874487296

I get the feeling this is what is important to JL?

[lynn cates]

deal

Hello Mabuse.

"The big issue is that he should not have been at the crime scene. The evidence we currently have suggests he could not have been there. He was stationed miles away.

There is actually no evidence that the shawl was at the crime scene either! It is conspicuous by its absence in the list of Eddowes' clothing."

Great summary. Once these are properly addressed, I'll be glad to deal.

Cheers.
LC

[Chris]

Jari tweets

https://twitter.com/JariLouhelainen

And in fact has just tweeted:

https://twitter.com/JariLouhelainen/status/514852325874487296

[lynn cates]

wealth

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

"They are, you only require an A to Z. Perhaps we should all chip in and send a copy?"

But I should think that, with his new found wealth, Mr. Edwards could afford to buy his own copy?

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Guys

Just noticed your posts…

Its been a long hard few months here…and I have a very sexy young Cat singing down stairs as we finally have the house starting to look like a home after the winter floods..

Then ew have a couple of glasses of wine

So please let me reply tomorrow…a few people have pointed out privately that I appear to have mellowed….

Its just called getting old…but feeling young

Jeff

[John G]

Yep the whole organised disorganised thing is miss leading. All the experts I spoke to said they need One to One diagnosis

And if I'm honest I didn't get the feeling they could give me a definitive answer even if they did..

And no I'm not supporting case closed Tom… I'm just trying to figure out the latest leads and info as I'd like to update my program…

But thats about getting the FACTS straight.. I'm a ripperologist these days

Currently looking forward to the Druit walk next month!! as My main current interest is the Jack the Stripper murder sites two of which take a similar journey

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

How would you categorize Anthony Hardy, the Camden Ripper? The police believe he may have murdered 10 or more women, despite the fact he seemed to lead a highly dysfunctional lifestyle. He was homeless for a period, living in hostels, and had a number of mental health and substance abuse problems- not unlike Kosminski, really.

Just a minute, I seem to be making a case for Kosminski...what's going on! All this analysis of Edwards' arguments must be sending me mad!

[Patrick S]

Yep the whole organised disorganised thing is miss leading. All the experts I spoke to said they need One to One diagnosis

And if I'm honest I didn't get the feeling they could give me a definitive answer even if they did..

And no I'm not supporting case closed Tom… I'm just trying to figure out the latest leads and info as I'd like to update my program…

But thats about getting the FACTS straight.. I'm a ripperologist these days

Currently looking forward to the Druit walk next month!! as My main current interest is the Jack the Stripper murder sites two of which take a similar journey

Jeff

Hi, Jeff. Can you elaborate on "One to One diagnosis"?

I've never had an investigator or profiler tell me they were surprised by what kind of person the killer was. These guys can be pretty arrogant, yeah. But, I tend to believe them. Another great quote I have here: "They pretty much are what they do."

Let me know about the Druitt walk. I'm going to be in London soon and need a diverson or two.

[Patrick S]

Although I know you do like to only be one suspect.

I don't understand this.......

What I am saying is - I don't believe the killer was 'disorganised' as Jeff says, in fact I think that's wrong (and rules out Kosminski, for me, emphasis on for me) but I do agree there is evidence that he took his chances when they presented themselves, rather than carefully selecting his victim. Which is a slightly more disorganised approach.

Well, then what you believe is wrong. It' wishful thinking. And that's fine. You're not alone, obviously. I'll just drag a quote from my notes. I'll cut and paste from 2003.....a man who does this kind of thing for a living that I now count as a close friend said this to me:

Its fairly simple. If you stop by a friends house unannounced and you see dirty dishes lying all over the place, dirty underwear on the floor, fithly toilets, and trash that hasn't been taken out in a week, you know that this guy's a slob, don't you? It's the same with a crime scene. You make initial impressions like 'organized' and 'disorganized'. The body always tells you that. When you've been doing this as long as _____ and I have you know. In the twelve years I've been at _____ I've never had an initial assement proven wrong. It's something you can pretty much count on. We were trained to make those impressions and tweak them as we get more information and go deeeper into the investigation. We were never told this would be such a solid thing. But it is. At least it has been up to now.

Do I think Kozminski was Jack the Ripper? I have no idea. I'm not in the business of naming suspects. I'm open to all possibilities, believe it or now. I'll tell you what people with training and experience in these matters have told me: If it wasn't him it was someone just like him.



So a man who used his work and routes he was very familiar was as the basis for his hunting ground because he would (a) know his way around, know where to look, where to hide and where to run (b) blend in seemlessly (c) chose a time of day that would keep potential witnesses to a minimum (d) a time of day that also happened to blend in with his legitimate work patterns = organised.

I really hope you can see what you're doing here. You are arriving a misguided conclusion that the killer was 'organized' because IF Charles Lechmere was Jack the Ripper, he would have been organized. This is exactly the wrong approach and I can't believe intelligent people still take it. We only know what we know! What we KNOW about Jack the Ripper comes ONLY from his victims bodies and the crime scenes. We know the condition of the bodies. We know they were mutilated. We know were killed on the spot. We know this is a killer who professionals would today categorize as 'DISorganized'. Sometimes things are fairly simple. I know it's not romantic and we often like things to be complex. This is not. IF Charles Lechmere were a serial killer his victims would NOT look like Jack the Ripper's victims. It really is that simple.

Selecting a prostitute at random when a good moment came up (within the context outlined above) = disorganised.

Therefore, if Lechmere were the Ripper, he would fit well with a fusion between a organised AND disorgansised killer.

See above. Stating it this way doesn't make it LESS wrong. You are bestowing upon the killer attributes you THINK Lechmere may have had, if he HAD been the Ripper and if he HAD used his work routes, etc. Again, what do we KNOW!?!

That's what I was saying.

See above bold.

[pinkmoon]

None of this is true because the shawl couldn't have been at any of the murder sites

[Jeff Leahy]

Organised/disorganised is outdated terminology. I've never been comfortable with the black/white, either/or rankings of profilers. And then years later they tag on organised/disorganised. Think of how ludicrous this is. You can't even call it profiling because it fits almost everyone. Hoarders are disorganised, OCD people are organised. The other 95% of us are a combination of both.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yep the whole organised disorganised thing is miss leading. All the experts I spoke to said they need One to One diagnosis

And if I'm honest I didn't get the feeling they could give me a definitive answer even if they did..

And no I'm not supporting case closed Tom… I'm just trying to figure out the latest leads and info as I'd like to update my program…

But thats about getting the FACTS straight.. I'm a ripperologist these days

Currently looking forward to the Druit walk next month!! as My main current interest is the Jack the Stripper murder sites two of which take a similar journey

Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,
Amos Simpson isn't the only issue here. As I've just posted on the other thread, what about Mrs.Simpson...

Amos : hello love, just been hanging around in Whitechapel instead of my usual beat, dropped in on a murdered prostitute and brought you a semen stained shawl as a gift

Jane: ah, thanks love, very thoughtful, now just sign those divorce papers before you pop up to bed!

Something smells of a rat...probably the shawl

On a lighter note, I'm disappointed that during this whole fiasco Russell Edwards failed to discover Jane Simpsons employment history (with a Jewish family) as I feel that line of enquiry deserves at least a cursory mention.

Amanda

Yes I agree. But if a positive match.. blood to endows descendant is made..

We'll have to figure out a drama where it works because the evidence says so

But I appreciate your scepticism, you have the makings of a fine Ripperologist

With thanks for your style... Jeff

[Tom_Wescott]

Organised/disorganised is outdated terminology. I've never been comfortable with the black/white, either/or rankings of profilers. And then years later they tag on organised/disorganised. Think of how ludicrous this is. You can't even call it profiling because it fits almost everyone. Hoarders are disorganised, OCD people are organised. The other 95% of us are a combination of both.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[RockySullivan]

That's not an 'accusation', Jeff. There's nothing wrong with following leads or sharing your suspicions. And I wholeheartedly agree that suspect Ripperology is the primary source of popular interest in this case. But the "I've proved the Ripper's identity beyond doubt" days should now be behind us. Or don't you agree?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Exactly Tom. The "I proved it" when he clearly hasn't yet is what makes this a fraudulent claim. Lots of people keep saying it's not fraud....but that's a fraudulent claim!!! It is fraud by definition!!
It's not the he faked the DNA...it's that he faked what the DNA amounts to in the media.

[Westbourne Wink]

And how on God's green earth do you know that Charles Lechmere was 'organised and opportunistic'? One might think that Eddie Stowe has a new user name.....

Haha. God forbid MULTIPLE people might have the same opinion, not just Edward Stow.

Although I know you do like to only be one suspect.

What I am saying is - I don't believe the killer was 'disorganised' as Jeff says, in fact I think that's wrong (and rules out Kosminski, for me, emphasis on for me) but I do agree there is evidence that he took his chances when they presented themselves, rather than carefully selecting his victim. Which is a slightly more disorganised approach.

So a man who used his work and routes he was very familiar was as the basis for his hunting ground because he would (a) know his way around, know where to look, where to hide and where to run (b) blend in seemlessly (c) chose a time of day that would keep potential witnesses to a minimum (d) a time of day that also happened to blend in with his legitimate work patterns = organised.

Selecting a prostitute at random when a good moment came up (within the context outlined above) = disorganised.

Therefore, if Lechmere were the Ripper, he would fit well with a fusion between a organised AND disorgansised killer.

That's what I was saying.