Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[dropzone]

Hi Caligo Umbrator,

What a stupid nom de plume. It sounds like a Roman sex-toy.

Learn some Latin and become less hostile. That was uncalled for.

[Caligo Umbrator]

Hi Caligo Umbrator,

What a stupid nom de plume. It sounds like a Roman sex-toy.

Would the words "Daily" and "Express" mean anything to you?

Just a hunch.

Regards,

Simon

Thank you, Simon.
I see you're quite a senior here and I'm a new recruit, so I'll take the comment on my nom de plume on the chin.
I'm unfamiliar with roman sex toys, however, so I'll defer to your knowledge on that matter.
The Daily Express is of course a national British newspaper. I haven't read it recently so am curious as to why you'd ask me about it.
That is unless you were engaging in a little word play and intended to meant 'express' something 'daily'.
What is your hunch?

[Chris]

With all the talk about the relatives and mDNA of Eddowes, I was wondering has anyone given any thought to Kozminski and his relatives?
My understanding is that the relative of his who was tested has elected to remain anonymous, which obviously puts us all at some disadvantage in verifying any claims made about the continuity of the bloodline.
Unfortunately I don't have the resources to do this myself but was wondering if he even had any living, verifiable relatives.
I ask that because I read this thread a couple of days ago about that -

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4140

Does anyone have any new information about this line of enquiry?

Rob House and I did a lot of research a few years ago on Aaron Kozminski's relations. There are many living relations, including a number in the direct male and female lines. Some of them were kind enough to reply to inquiries, but no information about Aaron had been passed down in the family. Naturally, we haven't made public and won't make public details of these descendants.

But I can confirm that Russell Edwards's 'M' is indeed a descendant in the direct female line of Aaron's sister Matilda.

The Zena Shine mentioned in the thread you link to is clearly not a descendant of either of Aaron's brothers.

[pinkmoon]

It's been stated before here and it's stated in the book (which I've finally received and will begin soon). Edwards was told (by a police official?) that the top brass at the time of murders knew who Jack the Ripper was: Aaron Kozminski. That's his story anyway. While it seems a stretch to me, it might well be the route a neophyte with no real insight into the case might take upon being told such a thing.

Not saying a buy it. Just saying......

The luck of these first timers.

[PaulB]

It's been stated before here and it's stated in the book (which I've finally received and will begin soon). Edwards was told (by a police official?) that the top brass at the time of murders knew who Jack the Ripper was: Aaron Kozminski. That's his story anyway. While it seems a stretch to me, it might well be the route a neophyte with no real insight into the case might take upon being told such a thing.

Not saying a buy it. Just saying......

I find nothing improbable about that story.

[Jeff Leahy]

But this shawl business is a joke and like Stewart Evans has repeatedly said... always has been seen as a fake. For people like Neil (a fine example I will use) and many others it is an affront to seriously researched Ripperology.

However I fully expect this Edwards fellow will find support from within the same publisher's authors lists. That would not surprise me one iota.

I wonder why exactly?
Phil

ITs always been perceived wisdom by the Ripper community that the Shawl was Edwardian…Not that it was fake.

It appears to have been demonstrated that this is not the case.

Add to that, that it appears we have a positive blood match to Catherine Eddows…and it seems fairly unlikely that it was not at least close to her person when killed…

So the provenance is irrelevant as long as the Science says 'it's Eddows Blood'

I'd say that was pretty simple to understand.

Yours Jeff

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Caligo Umbrator,

What a stupid nom de plume. It sounds like a Roman sex-toy.

This coming from a guy with the name Wood.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Chris]

ITs always been perceived wisdom by the Ripper community that the Shawl was Edwardian…Not that it was fake.

Yes - "fake" implies something false that has been manufactured by someone. I don't think that has been the received wisdom at all. I'd have thought that the "A to Z" could reasonably be thought to embody the received wisdom, and the current edition (2010) says:
"There is no suggestion of calculated deception on anyone's part: it is doubted that the shawl was really Eddowes' - for example, it is a costly item and therefore improbable that she might have possessed it and no such item is mentioned in descriptions of her, or her possessions and clothing."

Of course, one suggestion is that the "shawl" might have belonged to the victim of a different crime, and that a mistaken family tradition might have associated it with Eddowes.

[Chris]

Rob House and I did a lot of research a few years ago on Aaron Kozminski's relations.

Of course, I should also have mentioned that Pat Marshall has done some more recent research on this. Pat identified another sister of Aaron, who settled in Boston, Massachusetts, of whom there are many living descendants.

[lynn cates]

chit chat

Hello John. Thanks. Those are some good books.

I used to be a Cream supporter--until I found he had an alibi. My last suspect was Druitt, whom I dropped a few years ago--no evidence.

Cheers.
LC

[mickreed]

Hi Caligo Umbrator,

What a stupid nom de plume. It sounds like a Roman sex-toy.

Would the words "Daily" and "Express" mean anything to you?

Just a hunch.

Regards,

Simon

Assistant Commissioner Wood, eh? The master of the cryptic comment and the unveiled insult (and anything else?). Let's hope the higher ranks in JTR's day had a bit more to justify their promotions, otherwise we might as well all go home.

[mickreed]

Edwards was told (by a police official?) that the top brass at the time of murders knew who Jack the Ripper was: Aaron Kozminski.

The Evans, the Beggs, the Fidos, will all know far more about this than me, and I suspect, the people at the Crime Museum.

I assume that the CM people don't have any records stashed away that no-one else is privy to. If that's the case, then the most they could know is that a 'Kosminski' was a suspect - and that he'd been 'exonerated' by at least one leading figure of the time..

Nobody had ever heard of Aaron in this connection until (I think) 1987 when Martin Fido discovered him in an asylum.

Now Fido was far too cute to say for sure that Aaron and 'Kosminski' were, 'beyond doubt' the same man.

Would that Edwards had his wisdom, and would that so many Ripper researchers had it too.

[lynn cates]

incidence

Hello Joe. Hope you are well.

Good point, but I think incidence is based on probabilities and a steady mutation rate. Slender, in my book.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

science

Hello Jeff.

"So the provenance is irrelevant as long as the science says it's Eddowes's blood"

But science says no such thing.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Mick.

"Now Fido was far too cute to say for sure that Aaron and 'Kosminski' were, 'beyond doubt' the same man.

Would that Edwards had his wisdom, and would that so many Ripper researchers had it too."

Goes for me too.

Cheers.
LC