Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Bell Club incident, and the 1887 attack on Aaron Abrahams

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Bell Club incident, and the 1887 attack on Aaron Abrahams

    I wanted to start this thread to discuss two separate incidents, either of which may (or may not) be related to Aaron Kosminski.

    1. The Bell Club incident - several newspapers reported on an incident in June 1889, in which a number of Jewish men apparently "brutally ill-used" 2 girls who were passing by a place called the Bell Club in Fieldgate street. This Jewish club was called a "gambling den" and a disgrace to the neighborhood, and that "half the crime originated in them". The cause of the violence was that the 2 girls went to the club to "demand a man called Abrahams, who, it was alleged, had seduced a Christian girl."

    I don't think there is a lot of information about this incident, or about the "Bell Club".

    Aaron Kosminski apparently sometimes went by the name Aaron Abrahams. Fieldgate Street was, of course, very close to Aaron's probable residence that the time.

    2. The 1887 incident with "Aaron Abrahams" - originally posted by Pat Marshall...

    "Lloyds weekly 4th Sept 1887......
    William Graham 23 was charged with assaulting Aaron Abrahams of Charlotte street Mile End.
    On Friday evening the prosecutor was walking along with a friend when a woman accosted them. The accused punched the prosecutor in the face, knocked him down and then kicked him. Graham made off but was arrested. When arrested Graham said I struck him because he struck a woman... Mr Lushington sentenced Graham to 2 months hard labour​."

    If Aaron Abrahams was indeed Aaron Kosminski (which seems likely) then this would be the first and only known documented incident in which Kosminski attacked a women in the street. Again... the details of this incident are pretty vague and unclear.

    Both of the above incidents deserve some further research and discussion, in my opinion.

    Paddy Chris
    Attached Files
    Last edited by robhouse; 12-09-2022, 06:03 PM.

  • #2
    Interesting articles Rob. The Bell Club incident has a couple (at least) of points that could do with an explanation. Were the 2 girls ‘just passing’ or had they gone there to confront Abraham’s (Kosminski?) It seems unlikely that the club members would have been aware of the girls if they had been passing outside the club whilst they were inside so it looks likelier that they had actually gone to the club. Then the third, and longer, article mentions a second incident in the afternoon which isn’t mentioned in the first 2 articles. It’s also a pity that we don’t get Abrahams Christian name and address.

    Do you know if there’s any kind of connection between Kosminski and Charlotte Street, Mile End Rob?

    It would be tempting to see the two incidents as connected if we didn’t know that they were separated by nearly 2 years. Abraham’s certainly had women ‘issues.’
    Regards

    Sir Herlock Sholmes

    “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

    Comment


    • #3
      No there is no evidence of Aaron Kosminski living in Charlotte St

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
        Interesting articles Rob. The Bell Club incident has a couple (at least) of points that could do with an explanation. Were the 2 girls ‘just passing’ or had they gone there to confront Abraham’s (Kosminski?) It seems unlikely that the club members would have been aware of the girls if they had been passing outside the club whilst they were inside so it looks likelier that they had actually gone to the club. Then the third, and longer, article mentions a second incident in the afternoon which isn’t mentioned in the first 2 articles. It’s also a pity that we don’t get Abrahams Christian name and address.

        Do you know if there’s any kind of connection between Kosminski and Charlotte Street, Mile End Rob?

        It would be tempting to see the two incidents as connected if we didn’t know that they were separated by nearly 2 years. Abraham’s certainly had women ‘issues.’
        No direct link to Charlotte street Mike, but it was the eastern section of fieldgate street, so very close to the kosminski family known addresses in Greenfield street.
        The mile end ref in the address makes it sound like it's miles away, but in reality it wasn't.

        Steve

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Rob. I assume that The Bell Club had a some connection to The Whitechapel Bell Foundry which had an entrance in Fieldgate Street? Not that it’s relevant to the articles of course.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes

          “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Elamarna View Post

            No direct link to Charlotte street Mike, but it was the eastern section of fieldgate street, so very close to the kosminski family known addresses in Greenfield street.
            The mile end ref in the address makes it sound like it's miles away, but in reality it wasn't.

            Steve
            Thanks Steve, I’m not great with geography and have absolutely no sense of direction (as my mates have found to their cost when I’ve been charged with navigating)

            I thought that Mile End rang some kind of bell but it was just that Koz was incarcerated in Mile End workhouse.
            Regards

            Sir Herlock Sholmes

            “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by robhouse View Post

              2. The 1887 incident with "Aaron Abrahams" - originally posted by Pat Marshall...

              "Lloyds weekly 4th Sept 1887......
              William Graham 23 was charged with assaulting Aaron Abrahams of Charlotte street Mile End.
              On Friday evening the prosecutor was walking along with a friend when a woman accosted them. The accused punched the prosecutor in the face, knocked him down and then kicked him. Graham made off but was arrested. When arrested Graham said I struck him because he struck a woman... Mr Lushington sentenced Graham to 2 months hard labour​."
              Very interesting accounts, thanks for posting them, Rob. It's good to see that y'all are still investigating one of the few legitimate suspects.

              I notice there was another account of the 1887 case that added a few other details--the assault took place outside the London Hospital at 12.30 a.m.

              The wording is a little strange. It sounds like the friend was propositioned, but Abrahams was the one assaulted.


              Click image for larger version

Name:	5 September 1887.jpg
Views:	347
Size:	114.2 KB
ID:	801528

              Comment


              • #8
                I am just pondering the statement that "He had a great hatred of women, especially of the prostitute class​" given that this event took place before the Ripper murders commenced. One might wonder WHY he had a great hatred of prostitutes. This sounds very much like an attack by a prostitute and her "ponce" or bully.

                Comment


                • #9
                  From Charles Booth's London, section on prostitution, page 128.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by robhouse View Post
                    I am just pondering the statement that "He had a great hatred of women, especially of the prostitute class​" given that this event took place before the Ripper murders commenced. One might wonder WHY he had a great hatred of prostitutes. This sounds very much like an attack by a prostitute and her "ponce" or bully.

                    Welcome back Mr. House,

                    I am positivley certain that secret detectives had questioned many of the unfortunates and got this piece of information from them privately, taking in account the sensitivity of this particular subject.


                    TB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's an interesting thought. I always assumed Kozminski said this himself... like how Sutcliffe did.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X