A possibility for the Seaside Home?

[Trevor Marriott]

What if the witness was at the convalescent home?

Then the police manpower would have had to have been increased to convey him, thus letting more people in on the act, and any of those people who could have come forward over the ensuing years confirming the positive ID.But no one did, not from the police, or anyone from the mythical seaside home.

Do you really believe this ID took place as described by Swanson, yet not corroborated by his boss McNaughton ?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Darryl Kenyon]

What if the witness was at the convalescent home?

Not sure about that Harry, unless the witness was a policeman or a member of staff. With Lawende being a commercial traveller by trade and if he was the witness then maybe he was in Brighton at that time? Although I doubt it because I believe that the ID took place not long before Kosminski was incarcerated and we know that Lawende was used against Sadler not long later.
Regards Darryl

[Harry D]

I do believe an ID took place involving Kosminski and probably Lawenede the problem is as I have mentioned I simply cannot believe the police took a suspect under restraint and with difficulty all the way, sixty odd miles to Brighton. And that is not to mention taking the witness there and all it would cost etc

What if the witness was at the convalescent home?

[Darryl Kenyon]

Anyone want to address this in connection with the claims that a Seaside ID answers the "Jack" question a few years before 1896? If an ID took place it obviously didn't answer anything satisfactorily....more police were added to the streets again after the 1896 letter, and they had people look at the handwriting. Jack The Ripper crimes were never solved, any Seaside "ID" cannot have been the answer, and as late as 1910 people like Abberline still claimed that no-one knew who Jack was.

Who said finding the seaside home and when, or if Kosminski was identified there solved the JTR mystery once and for all? As far as I am concerned Michael it is just one piece in many puzzles in the whole of the mystery, But it is a piece of the puzzle I, and probably others are interested in.
Regards Darryl

[Michael W Richards]

What about the resurfacing of the panic in 1896 with a letter quoting the GSG?

Anyone want to address this in connection with the claims that a Seaside ID answers the "Jack" question a few years before 1896? If an ID took place it obviously didn't answer anything satisfactorily....more police were added to the streets again after the 1896 letter, and they had people look at the handwriting. Jack The Ripper crimes were never solved, any Seaside "ID" cannot have been the answer, and as late as 1910 people like Abberline still claimed that no-one knew who Jack was.

[Michael W Richards]

What about the resurfacing of the panic in 1896 with a letter quoting the GSG?

[Abby Normal]

I do believe an ID took place involving Kosminski and probably Lawenede the problem is as I have mentioned I simply cannot believe the police took a suspect under restraint and with difficulty all the way, sixty odd miles to Brighton. And that is not to mention taking the witness there and all it would cost etc
I know it has been suggested that it was done to escape the hotbed of London. But what we must remember is the ID probably took place not long before Kosminski was sent to Colney Hatch. So sometime at the end of January, beginning of February 1891 would fit neatly. Now the last JTR scare was in July 1889 [Alice], or perhaps Sep 89 with the Pinchen st torso. I doubt by early 91 Whitechapel was still a hotbed of frantic journalists trying to follow every single slight clue on the ripper, the furore would have died down. We also have Sadler being put on an ID not long later after the murder of Francis, so why was that done in the middle of the metropolis if the other one wasn't? It doesn't make sense.
The other argument about the Brighton seaside home is that it was common knowledge that the police convalescent home in Brighton was known as that?
Do we have evidence for this? But even if we do Swanson says he had been identified at the seaside home, not our or the police's seaside home.
Swanson probably wrote his marginalia not long after 1910, 22 years after the murders. He probably wrote it without the benefit of notes or files from the case in front of him, and relied solely on memory. If he didn't he wouldn't have made the mistake that after the ID no other murder of this kind took place in London, forgetting that Francis was murdered a few days after Kosminski was incarcerated not before.
Seaside home, Seamans home, Sailors home. Could he have written it down wrong when he was, in effect just making jottings? I think he could have.
Regards Darryl

yes i like it

DK any idea why a police id of a suspect would tale place here though? does it have any connection to the police, or an asylum for that matter?

[Trevor Marriott]

I do believe an ID took place involving Kosminski and probably Lawenede the problem is as I have mentioned I simply cannot believe the police took a suspect under restraint and with difficulty all the way, sixty odd miles to Brighton. And that is not to mention taking the witness there and all it would cost etc
I know it has been suggested that it was done to escape the hotbed of London. But what we must remember is the ID probably took place not long before Kosminski was sent to Colney Hatch. So sometime at the end of January, beginning of February 1891 would fit neatly. Now the last JTR scare was in July 1889 [Alice], or perhaps Sep 89 with the Pinchen st torso. I doubt by early 91 Whitechapel was still a hotbed of frantic journalists trying to follow every single slight clue on the ripper, the furore would have died down. We also have Sadler being put on an ID not long later after the murder of Francis, so why was that done in the middle of the metropolis if the other one wasn't? It doesn't make sense.
The other argument about the Brighton seaside home is that it was common knowledge that the police convalescent home in Brighton was known as that?
Do we have evidence for this? But even if we do Swanson says he had been identified at the seaside home, not our or the police's seaside home.
Swanson probably wrote his marginalia not long after 1910, 22 years after the murders. He probably wrote it without the benefit of notes or files from the case in front of him, and relied solely on memory. If he didn't he wouldn't have made the mistake that after the ID no other murder of this kind took place in London, forgetting that Francis was murdered a few days after Kosminski was incarcerated not before.
Seaside home, Seamans home, Sailors home. Could he have written it down wrong when he was, in effect just making jottings? I think he could have.
Regards Darryl

There is one major nagging doubt about Kosminski and the seaside home.

The only two officers who make mention of this so called suspect Kosminski were MM and Swanson, yet neither mention him by his full name, surely such a prime suspect supposedly identified as being the ripper warrants being fully identified, and coincidentally, these are the only two officers out of all the police officers involved in the investigation over the years to mention this suspect Kosminski.

It should also be noted that MM was Swansons immediate superior, yet he makes no mention of any such ID procedure in his memo.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Paddy]

There used to be a Sailors place along commercial road up towards poplar way I remember passing it in 70s it was on the left with a big sign. Does anyone know what it was called?

Pat....

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock I think I have only ever started one thread before so I think I made a bit of a mess of it How could I move it please
Regards Darryl

Hi Darryl,

Im sure that only Admin can move a thread Darryl. I don’t know if a pm to admin would do the trick? I think you can contact admin via email but I’m unsure how.

I’d bet that Sam would know.

[Darryl Kenyon]

I do believe an ID took place involving Kosminski and probably Lawenede the problem is as I have mentioned I simply cannot believe the police took a suspect under restraint and with difficulty all the way, sixty odd miles to Brighton. And that is not to mention taking the witness there and all it would cost etc
I know it has been suggested that it was done to escape the hotbed of London. But what we must remember is the ID probably took place not long before Kosminski was sent to Colney Hatch. So sometime at the end of January, beginning of February 1891 would fit neatly. Now the last JTR scare was in July 1889 [Alice], or perhaps Sep 89 with the Pinchen st torso. I doubt by early 91 Whitechapel was still a hotbed of frantic journalists trying to follow every single slight clue on the ripper, the furore would have died down. We also have Sadler being put on an ID not long later after the murder of Francis, so why was that done in the middle of the metropolis if the other one wasn't? It doesn't make sense.
The other argument about the Brighton seaside home is that it was common knowledge that the police convalescent home in Brighton was known as that?
Do we have evidence for this? But even if we do Swanson says he had been identified at the seaside home, not our or the police's seaside home.
Swanson probably wrote his marginalia not long after 1910, 22 years after the murders. He probably wrote it without the benefit of notes or files from the case in front of him, and relied solely on memory. If he didn't he wouldn't have made the mistake that after the ID no other murder of this kind took place in London, forgetting that Francis was murdered a few days after Kosminski was incarcerated not before.
Seaside home, Seamans home, Sailors home. Could he have written it down wrong when he was, in effect just making jottings? I think he could have.
Regards Darryl

[Darryl Kenyon]

I did wonder why this thread was in the section?

Darryl, couldn’t you request that admin move this to one of the main threads. It’s a worthwhile topic.

Hi Herlock I think I have only ever started one thread before so I think I made a bit of a mess of it How could I move it please
Regards Darryl

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi DK and HS
agree. very interesting and you very well may be right.

but why is this in the faq section? I wish it could me moved to one of the below pertinent section-hopefully more people will see and chime in, because this is intriguing possibility.

I did wonder why this thread was in the section?

Darryl, couldn’t you request that admin move this to one of the main threads. It’s a worthwhile topic.

[Abby Normal]

Interesting stuff Darryl. I have to admit that one of the many questions that has perplexed and niggled at me in this case over the years is the one that you’ve mentioned. Why the hell would they have taken their suspect, under restraint, to the coast for an identification? It really makes no sense to me on the face of it. The Evans/Rumbelow suggestion for how the confusion might have occurred seems eminently plausible imo. Far more likely that they would have wanted their suspect safely to hand. Would they have expected their witness to take a whole day off work for a trip to the coast? Unless they promised the suspect an ice cream, a donkey ride and a paddle in the sea I can see no reason for it

Hi DK and HS
agree. very interesting and you very well may be right.

but why is this in the faq section? I wish it could me moved to one of the below pertinent section-hopefully more people will see and chime in, because this is intriguing possibility.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Interesting stuff Darryl. I have to admit that one of the many questions that has perplexed and niggled at me in this case over the years is the one that you’ve mentioned. Why the hell would they have taken their suspect, under restraint, to the coast for an identification? It really makes no sense to me on the face of it. The Evans/Rumbelow suggestion for how the confusion might have occurred seems eminently plausible imo. Far more likely that they would have wanted their suspect safely to hand. Would they have expected their witness to take a whole day off work for a trip to the coast? Unless they promised the suspect an ice cream, a donkey ride and a paddle in the sea I can see no reason for it