Koz - No First Name in Marginalia

[PaulB]

You really are on another planet. You cant give up on this now you have to much riding on keeping Kosminki as an active suspect. Even Fido eliminated Aaron Kosminski.

You see, you like others way back in the 70`s and the 80`s firmly nailed your colours to the mast as far as suspects and connecting evidence to the point of publishing books and appearing in documentaries

Now in later years much of what has been written or as you would say postulated is now being challenged and in some cases has led to major issues being totally disproved leaving you and others clinging to outdated theories some of which are nothing more than wild speculative and uncorroborated which you continually prop up with lenghty written ramblings which conatin nothing more than your opinions.

You cant and wont accept change well you are soon going be left on your own because people are now realising that all that has previoulsy been written may not be as accurate as they have been led to beleive.

Its sad that logical reasoning is obviousy not part of your makeup so there is no point in contiuning to argue with you when you are like others continue to look
at this through rose tinted spectacles fitted with blinkers.

I wil not now enagage in any further post on this topic there is nothing more to say. I wil let the results of my invesigation do the talking for me when published.

I've told you loads of times, I have no colours nailed to any masts, and that accusing people of bias as you do is the cheapest of all shots, and usually the one taken by people whose armory has precious little in it. As for the rest of your nonsense, we can let that pass. People know where you're coming from and can see through your bluster. But if my long, rambling posts devoid of anything but personal opinions have put and end to your nonsence on this topic, I can but say....... Yipppeeee!

[Monty]

You really are on another planet. You cant give up on this now you have to much riding on keeping Kosminki as an active suspect. Even Fido eliminated Aaron Kosminski.

You see, you like others way back in the 70`s and the 80`s firmly nailed your colours to the mast as far as suspects and connecting evidence to the point of publishing books and appearing in documentaries

Now in later years much of what has been written or as you would say postulated is now being challenged and in some cases has led to major issues being totally disproved leaving you and others clinging to outdated theories some of which are nothing more than wild speculative and uncorroborated which you continually prop up with lenghty written ramblings which conatin nothing more than your opinions.

You cant and wont accept change well you are soon going be left on your own because people are now realising that all that has previoulsy been written may not be as accurate as they have been led to beleive.

Its sad that logical reasoning is obviousy not part of your makeup so there is no point in contiuning to argue with you when you are like others continue to look
at this through rose tinted spectacles fitted with blinkers.

I wil not now enagage in any further post on this topic there is nothing more to say. I wil let the results of my invesigation do the talking for me when published.

I cant wait.

Monty

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

We can argue absolutely anything. And we do. It's the beauty of Ripperology.

Anderson pointed the finger at an unnamed low-class Polish Jew.

Swanson's end-paper suspect was a Jew named Kosminski, which is generally accepted as lending credibility to Anderson.

Putting Anderson and Swanson together we arrive at a Polish Jew named Kosminski, but, according to Martin, not necessarily Aaron Kosminski, the only person of that surname found in the LVP asylum records.

By a curious coincidence MM's Polish Jew was also named Kosminski. But, following Martin's reasoning, he also need not necessarily have been Aaron.

So perhaps the time has come to belatedly exonerate Aaron Kosminski and allow him to rest in peace.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon
Actually, the days of arguing about almost anything have long gone. The demands for facts, which a whole bunch of very able researchers, like Rob Clack, Debra Arif, John Bennett, Tom Wescott, 'Monty', and a veritable host of others work so hard to provide, mean that we must all rigorously apply the proper rules of research and assessment. Because if we don't, we get what I genuinely regret having to describe as the tosh Trevor is spouting.

However, Anderson pointed the finger at an unnamed Polish Jew, Macnaghten referred to a Polish Jew called 'Kosminski' a 'strong suspect', and the probability advanced by Martin was that Anderson's unnamed Polish Jew was the 'strong suspect 'Kosminski'. The Swanson marginalia, emerging after the publication of Martin's book, identified Anderson's suspect as 'Kosminski'. A search of asylum records and BDMs long ago established that there was only one 'Kosminski' in the asylum records - Aaron Kosminski. He fits the scant criteria supplied by Anderson, right down to his masturbation corresponding with the 'utterly unmentionable vices' referred to by Anderson and 'solitary vices' mentioned by Macnaghten.

Why would anyone 'exonerate' Aaron Kosminski? Unless, as Martin argues, he was a suspect who was confused with another suspect who was Jack the Ripper (which still leaves Aaron as having been suspected), but let's not no doubt that route.

[Monty]

Hi Trevor,

Swanson was relieved of his "eyes and ears" brief in December 1888.

Regards,

Simon

I thought it was October 88 Simon, however he was still associated with the case until 1896. At least that is his final entry, 18th October 1896. This in regards to Henry Moores report upon a Jack the Ripper letter, Swanson writes -

"In my opinion the handwritings are not the same. I agree as A. I beg that the letter may be put with similar letters. Its circulation is to be regretted.

Donald S. Swanson"

This is an indication Swanson was involved with the case after the alleged ID parade and was still refered to right up to the end. He certainly was on the circulation list.

Monty

[Trevor Marriott]

How I wish that you had answered it. Sadly, you haven't. Nor will you. Because you can't.

You really are on another planet. You cant give up on this now you have to much riding on keeping Kosminki as an active suspect. Even Fido eliminated Aaron Kosminski.

You see, you like others way back in the 70`s and the 80`s firmly nailed your colours to the mast as far as suspects and connecting evidence to the point of publishing books and appearing in documentaries

Now in later years much of what has been written or as you would say postulated is now being challenged and in some cases has led to major issues being totally disproved leaving you and others clinging to outdated theories some of which are nothing more than wild speculative and uncorroborated which you continually prop up with lenghty written ramblings which conatin nothing more than your opinions.

You cant and wont accept change well you are soon going be left on your own because people are now realising that all that has previoulsy been written may not be as accurate as they have been led to beleive.

Its sad that logical reasoning is obviousy not part of your makeup so there is no point in contiuning to argue with you when you are like others continue to look
at this through rose tinted spectacles fitted with blinkers.

I wil not now enagage in any further post on this topic there is nothing more to say. I wil let the results of my invesigation do the talking for me when published.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

We can argue absolutely anything. And we do. It's the beauty of Ripperology.

Anderson pointed the finger at an unnamed low-class Polish Jew.

Swanson's end-paper suspect was a Jew named Kosminski, which is generally accepted as lending credibility to Anderson.

Putting Anderson and Swanson together we arrive at a Polish Jew named Kosminski, but, according to Martin, not necessarily Aaron Kosminski, the only person of that surname found in the LVP asylum records.

By a curious coincidence MM's Polish Jew was also named Kosminski. But, following Martin's reasoning, he also need not necessarily have been Aaron.

So perhaps the time has come to belatedly exonerate Aaron Kosminski and allow him to rest in peace.

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

You are not able to prove that anything connected to this was lost or destroyed or that it ever exsited in the first place.

If it did ever exist what a coincidnce evidence to show perhaps who JTR was, lost or destroyed, and look at all the rubbish police files and records that has been left behind and not destroyed or lost.

As I said before its a cop out used by those who champion Kosminski and the marginalia. I would have thought you with your experience would be one of the first to question this mythical ID procedure which went against all known police protocol and procedures of the day. If there is a doubt about that there has to be a doubt about eveyhtibg else connected to the marginalia. They both stand or fall together. !

Neither are you in a position to state they are ficticious.

Andersons account is noted, and is supported by Swanson. Now unless you can provide evidence discounting either it stands.

Can you provide evidence?

Monty


PS. I know records were destroyed during the war and in the 60s and 70s.

[PaulB]

Deleted. For some reason a post was posted twice, and as much as I know Trvor loves my posts, too much of a good thing and all that...

[PaulB]

Already answered in reply to your post which I have no doubt you will reply to in your inmitable way

How I wish that you had answered it. Sadly, you haven't. Nor will you. Because you can't.

[PaulB]

The MM is and has proved to be unreliable, The only thing you can rely on with any certainty is the fact that in The AV he exonatrates Kosminski. He refers to four likely suspects they all could not have been JTR one some or all had to be exonarated at some point.

Sadly, Macnaghten did not exonerate Kosminski. Do you understand that? No, of course you don't. Silly of me to have asked really. Let me put it this way, on what evidence did Macnaghten exonerate Kosminski? What did he suddenly produce, evidence that Kosminski was not in London when the murders were committed?

Actually, I'll tell you what new evidence Macnaghten had that exonerated Kosminski. Her you go. Are you ready for this. He had - none. He simply reviewed the existing evidence. He tells you that. He simply reviewed the existing evidence and after carful and deliberate consideration he felt inclined - inclined, mark you; a word you seem unable to see or perhaps don't appreciate the significance of' he felt inclined to exonerate Kosminski and Ostrog. And he felt inclined to exonerate them in favour of - ta da, his own favoured suspect, the man against whom he had always harboured strong suspicions. Now, if there is anybody more open to the charge of bias, Macnaghten is going to take some beating. But we don't have to worry about that. What matters is that Macnaghten didn't really exonerate anyone - except in his own mind. And yours.

In the light of that it matters not what records or files there were on Kosminski because it is clear that the contents of those were also unreliable. But no its not suffficient in the eyes of some resecarchers who have hidden agendas for keeping Kosminisk as an active viable suspect to this day. They still want to suggest that MM was wrong to exonerate this man and that 124 years later they know more than one of the men on the front line at the time.

Nah, sorry Trev. Another nice try, but still no banana. You see, there are no researchers with hidden agendas. You've tried that nonsense in the past with all your drivel about cartels. That's just an easy, easy option for folk like you with nothing to back up your arguments. It's sud sad.

Swanson must have also known about Kominski from The MM or from what he had been told as Scotlan Yard, and thereore must have known about the exoneration so why would he then write about some mythical ID parade in this marginalia and name someone who was no longer a suspect.

But of course someone not so au fait with all the ripperological facts in later years may not have been aware of The full contants of the AV and that could have been there biggest mistake.

I could point out your errors, but you're really not worth it, Trev. Not when you do listen and don't understand. And you do neither.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

Swanson was relieved of his "eyes and ears" brief in December 1888.

Regards,

Simon

Thank you for that I meant to put 1888

[Trevor Marriott]

It is perfectly acceptable to postulate the existence of source materials that no longer exist, and it is possible to do so with as much certainty as if they were on a table in front of you. You do not understand this, thus you cannot accept it, but in your ignorance, all very reasonable to you, no doubt, you look very silly.

Now, this has been explained to you several times, so please start listening and taking this on board: YOU are saying that there was no file about Kosminski. That is YOUR argument. What you are being told is that there were files that have gone missing. There is absolutely no argument about that. We even have verbatim transcripts of documents that were in some of them. It is a fact. There were files that have gone missing. Yet YOU claim that there were no papers about Kosminski in any of them. And none about Druitt. And none about Ostrog. And none... And so, what is asked of you is: how do YOU know?

Now, you know, I know, and almost everyone here knows that any criminal investigation generates paperwork which is filed, so any investigation involving Kosminski, no matter how small, would have generated paperwork. Any suspicion about him being Jack the Ripper would have generated paperwork. It would have done. No question. So where is it? I'll tell you, if it existed, it has gone missing. That it is missing does not mean it never existed. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Keep talking about documents never having existed because they don't exist anymore and you'll hear that phrase over and over again.




it is not being said that there were files about Kosmisnki.

Already answered in reply to your post which I have no doubt you will reply to in your inmitable way

[Simon Wood]

Hi Trevor,

Swanson was relieved of his "eyes and ears" brief in December 1888.

Regards,

Simon

[PaulB]

You are not able to prove that anything connected to this was lost or destroyed or that it ever exsited in the first place.

If it did ever exist what a coincidnce evidence to show perhaps who JTR was, lost or destroyed, and look at all the rubbish police files and records that has been left behind and not destroyed or lost.

As I said before its a cop out used by those who champion Kosminski and the marginalia. I would have thought you with your experience would be one of the first to question this mythical ID procedure which went against all known police protocol and procedures of the day. If there is a doubt about that there has to be a doubt about eveyhtibg else connected to the marginalia. They both stand or fall together. !

It is perfectly acceptable to postulate the existence of source materials that no longer exist, and it is possible to do so with as much certainty as if they were on a table in front of you. You do not understand this, thus you cannot accept it, but in your ignorance, all very reasonable to you, no doubt, you look very silly.

Now, this has been explained to you several times, so please start listening and taking this on board: YOU are saying that there was no file about Kosminski. That is YOUR argument. What you are being told is that there were files that have gone missing. There is absolutely no argument about that. We even have verbatim transcripts of documents that were in some of them. It is a fact. There were files that have gone missing. Yet YOU claim that there were no papers about Kosminski in any of them. And none about Druitt. And none about Ostrog. And none... And so, what is asked of you is: how do YOU know?

Now, you know, I know, and almost everyone here knows that any criminal investigation generates paperwork which is filed, so any investigation involving Kosminski, no matter how small, would have generated paperwork. Any suspicion about him being Jack the Ripper would have generated paperwork. It would have done. No question. So where is it? I'll tell you, if it existed, it has gone missing. That it is missing does not mean it never existed. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Keep talking about documents never having existed because they don't exist anymore and you'll hear that phrase over and over again.




it is not being said that there were files about Kosmisnki.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor,

At the specific direction of Sir Charles Warren, Swanson (who didn't retire till 1903) saw every single document pertaining to the Metropolitan Police's involvement in the Whitechapel Murders enquiry. Why will he have needed to read the MM to know that Kosminski was a suspect?

Regards, Bridewell.

Swanson left that position in December 1889 and went back to his normal duties.

It is suggested that Kosminski never came into the frame until 1891. By then all the ripper files were gathering dust.