Koz - No First Name in Marginalia

[Garry Wroe]

Thanks Mr Wroe!

It's Garry, Dave. But thank you for your kind words anyway.

Perhaps we should all reconvene on a more appropriate thread to discuss the actual evidence of the Stride murder, by which I mean the assault involving Broad Shoulders, the position of the body, the lack of strangulation, the throat incision and the estimated time of death.

[mklhawley]

To Mike

I agree.

I also think that we are making big calls when we second guess demonstrably reliable primary sources. Macnaghten, arguably, cemented the so-called canonical five, and he had access to the information which incriminated the best suspect-- one who could not have killed after Kelly.

Mac removed McKenzie and Coles definitely from the Ripper list, although since this was done through the press it was disbelieved and disavowed by other significant police primary sources.

On the other hand, I also think that doubt is healthy and necessary and needs to be entertained for a lot longer than a 'second'.

Here is an example of potentially ignoring a critical primary source at your peril:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...le_crisis.html

Hi Jonathan,

Confirmation bias is always doing sneak attacks...but of course never to me!

[PaulB]

Hi Tom,

Paul Begg and Trevor Marriott are in agreement on something?
One or other of them will have to have a re-think, surely!

Regards, Bridewell.

Only one of us thinks, Colin.

[PaulB]

Hi Scott,

Garry, Paul Begg, Don Rumbelow, Trevor, et al, ad infinitum, labor under many irrelevancies and false conclusions where the Stride murder is concerned, leading them to believe the Stride was not a Ripper victim. In the case of Begg and Rumbelow, it might just be a case of them wishing to appear 'hip' or whatever, by taking on newer and currently popular (though fleetingly so) points of view. In the case of most others, this nonsense is attributable to the fact that virtually every book to date is grossly underinformed, or misinformed, regarding the Stride murder. But that, I suppose, is my issue alone, and not of great concern to most others.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Alas, it would take a lot more than believing that Stride was not a Ripper victim to make me 'hip'.

And I don't have an opinion about whether Stride was or wasn't a Ripper victim.

[Jonathan H]

To Mike

I agree.

I also think that we are making big calls when we second guess demonstrably reliable primary sources. Macnaghten, arguably, cemented the so-called canonical five, and he had access to the information which incriminated the best suspect-- one who could not have killed after Kelly.

Mac removed McKenzie and Coles definitely from the Ripper list, although since this was done through the press it was disbelieved and disavowed by other significant police primary sources.

On the other hand, I also think that doubt is healthy and necessary and needs to be entertained for a lot longer than a 'second'.

Here is an example of potentially ignoring a critical primary source at your peril:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2012/05/robert_caro_s_new_history_of_lbj_offers_a_mistaken_account_of_the_cuban_missile_crisis.html

[mklhawley]

If this guy hated prostitutes so much, I just don't seem him enjoying the act of soliciting. After being interrupted with Eddowes and was frustrated that he did not satisfy his evening's agenda, he happened upon a punter and unfortunate (Stride) just finishing up and once the guy left, he finally got to finish his agenda. Hey, it certainly answers the question of why he did two so quickly.

Sincerely,

Mike

[robhouse]

Hi Scott,

Garry, Paul Begg, Don Rumbelow, Trevor, et al, ad infinitum, labor under many irrelevancies and false conclusions where the Stride murder is concerned, leading them to believe the Stride was not a Ripper victim. In the case of Begg and Rumbelow, it might just be a case of them wishing to appear 'hip' or whatever, by taking on newer and currently popular (though fleetingly so) points of view. In the case of most others, this nonsense is attributable to the fact that virtually every book to date is grossly underinformed, or misinformed, regarding the Stride murder. But that, I suppose, is my issue alone, and not of great concern to most others.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I for one have always considered Stride was a Ripper victim. Never doubted it for a second.

Rob H

[Bridewell]

Paul & Trevor

Hi Scott,

Garry, Paul Begg, Don Rumbelow, Trevor, et al, ad infinitum, labor under many irrelevancies and false conclusions where the Stride murder is concerned, leading them to believe the Stride was not a Ripper victim. In the case of Begg and Rumbelow, it might just be a case of them wishing to appear 'hip' or whatever, by taking on newer and currently popular (though fleetingly so) points of view. In the case of most others, this nonsense is attributable to the fact that virtually every book to date is grossly underinformed, or misinformed, regarding the Stride murder. But that, I suppose, is my issue alone, and not of great concern to most others.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Paul Begg and Trevor Marriott are in agreement on something?
One or other of them will have to have a re-think, surely!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

Appreciated

My gut-feel (and perhaps nothing more) leads me to rebel against the final conclusion in Post 308 on this thread...However, it is one of the most well-constructed and beautifully logical postings I've ever seen on Casebook...Thanks Mr Wroe!

Dave

[Scott Nelson]

Thank you, Tom. The balance of probability would tell me that Stride was a victim of Jack the Ripper.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Scott,

Garry, Paul Begg, Don Rumbelow, Trevor, et al, ad infinitum, labor under many irrelevancies and false conclusions where the Stride murder is concerned, leading them to believe the Stride was not a Ripper victim. In the case of Begg and Rumbelow, it might just be a case of them wishing to appear 'hip' or whatever, by taking on newer and currently popular (though fleetingly so) points of view. In the case of most others, this nonsense is attributable to the fact that virtually every book to date is grossly underinformed, or misinformed, regarding the Stride murder. But that, I suppose, is my issue alone, and not of great concern to most others.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

The apparently staggering drunk in Berner St. suddenly got awful nimble, and sober, to dash off to Mitre Sq. and outpace the police away past Goulston St.
Or, perhaps the man just had a permanent limp. Did Kosminski have a limp?

Regards, Jon S.

Hello Jon,

Perhaps the limp went with his blue eyes and the humpty backed waistcoat.

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

best wishes

Phil

[Wickerman]

The apparently staggering drunk in Berner St. suddenly got awful nimble, and sober, to dash off to Mitre Sq. and outpace the police away past Goulston St.
Or, perhaps the man just had a permanent limp. Did Kosminski have a limp?

Regards, Jon S.

[Scott Nelson]

Beyond a labyrinth of assumption and supposition there is not a shred of evidence to substantiate the contention that Stride fell victim to the Whitechapel Murderer. In point of fact, everything about the Berner Street crime suggests that it was unrelated to the Ripper series....The sequence of events appears to have been that Kosminski came to the attention of investigators and was viewed by Schwartz, who identified him as the man he had seen assaulting Stride....The real flaw in Anderson’s conclusions relates to the Stride murder and its automatic inclusion in the Ripper series. Had this crime been evaluated purely on the evidence it would have been treated as incidental, and Kosminski could not have been assumed to have been Jack the Ripper, even in the event that he did kill Stride – which to my mind is extremely doubtful.

But the second woman's (Eddowes) throat was cut 45 minutes later, less than one half a mile away from Berner Street, and the description of the man seen assaulting Stride is similar to the man seen with a woman by Lawende at the top of Church Passage. For all we know, Kosminski may have headed back to Duke Street to wait for brother(s) or uncle(s) to emerge from the Imperial Club, but then changed his mind when he saw a woman standing alone.

[Garry Wroe]

But you are testimony to the fact that we do question the sacred cows, and also slaughter them if necessary, and always have done.

Thanks, Paul. Much appreciated. I have to say, though, that I have on a number of occasions been on the receiving end of 'agenda' accusations. It would be a great deal more civilized hereabouts if people would concentrate on the evidence and leave the unfounded slurs in the playground.