discussion of Aaron Kosminski's psychological profile

[Chris]

I dont know lol the passage is open to interpretation but I personally believe ATM that the Aaron Kosminsky we are discussing stands a good chance of being a different Kosminsky to the man referred to in the memoirs. Im not seeing many similarities in the police description of him to the records we have for Aaron.

Well, Aaron Kozminski was a Polish Jew, he lived in his brother's house in Whitechapel, and was admitted to the workhouse and from there was committed to Colney Hatch, with the cause of his insanity recorded as "self-abuse."

Admittedly there are discrepancies with Swanson's annotations - more seriously that he did not die soon after being committed; less seriously that he went via Mile End Old Town Workhouse, not Stepney Workhouse (though MEOT Workhouse was actually in Stepney). On other points in the police documents, such as his alleged hatred of prostitutes, we don't have information either way.

Against that, there is the fact that people have looked quite hard for an alternative Kozminski - in particular they have searched the Stepney Workhouse records, the Colney Hatch records and the civil death registrations - and they have found no one who comes anywhere near fitting.

[Versa]

I always assumed that "with difficulty" was due to Kosminski freaking out about being shoved in a tiny carriage with two cops he didn't know being taken away to some unknown location. I mean, I'm not schizophrenic and damned if I wouldn't be hanging out the window shrieking the whole way.

I dont know lol the passage is open to interpretation but I personally believe ATM that the Aaron Kosminsky we are discussing stands a good chance of being a different Kosminsky to the man referred to in the memoirs. Im not seeing many similarities in the police description of him to the records we have for Aaron.

[Versa]

And I had interpreted that he knew he was ill, and was trying to cure it through his food and water intake, and that he was engaging in the sort of classic magical thinking and ritualized behaviors in an effort to control the uncontrollable.

Without Aaron here to explain to us his reasons its impossible to know the answer to that but....

OCD 'rituals' are sometimes based on what are basically delusional beliefs.

Person x might have to wash their hands (to use a common example) either a set amount of times or until they felt happy.

The reasons for doing so have an element of delusional thinking (your really not going to die of cancer just because you didn't wash your hands 23 times).

There is a clear link with Schizophrenia in that often the person with ODC will report that the compulsion comes from a voice in their head telling them to preform the ritual. However with Schizophrenia the voice is an hallucination ie appears to the sufferer as an external voice as opposed to the OCD sufferer who reports an internal voice.

To an extent I would not be surprised if OCD was often concurrent with Schizophrenia.

Current thinking is that the two disorders are linked in some way. In my experience I rarely (if ever) saw a person that had Schizophrenia that displayed an overt form of ODC. I think that the disorders are 'distant cousins'.

OCD is anxiety related and as you said a control mechanism with some delusional beliefs and its usually found to have a root cause (eg a traumatic event over which the person had no control over in early life like parents divorcing etc).

Schizophrenia however has clear links to chemical imbalances in the brain and it currently treated with medications that block the uptake of those chemicals with a reasonable degree of success. Its often thought that stress can trigger the onset of Schizophrenia but this occurs at a later age than it does with an OCD sufferer.

Another bizarre similarity that OCD sufferers and Schizophrenics can share is the tendency to read sign posts aloud. Obviously not all Schizophrenics or OCD sufferers do this but some do. Weird but true lol

[Errata]

Sorry to jump in here but the statement

"On suspect’s return to his brother’s house in Whitechapel he was watched by police (City CID) by day & night. In a very short time the suspect with his hands tied behind his back, he was sent to Stepney Workhouse"

would appear to me mean that his hands were metaphorically tied behind his back due to the close observations he was under and not literally.

I always assumed that "with difficulty" was due to Kosminski freaking out about being shoved in a tiny carriage with two cops he didn't know being taken away to some unknown location. I mean, I'm not schizophrenic and damned if I wouldn't be hanging out the window shrieking the whole way.

[Errata]

I was teetering on putting a reference to OCD in my previous post regarding his refusal to wash but decided that its impossible to say from the sparse notes I've seen about Aaron where the refusal to wash comes from and as we know he was suspicious of food and water sources it seemed safer to go with thoughts regarding water contamination due to delusional beliefs.

It could easily be OCD, I couldn't even begin to say without either having access to very in depth notes or a consultation with Aaron (which is not going to happen lol)

And I had interpreted that he knew he was ill, and was trying to cure it through his food and water intake, and that he was engaging in the sort of classic magical thinking and ritualized behaviors in an effort to control the uncontrollable.

To an extent I would not be surprised if OCD was often concurrent with Schizophrenia. There are many schizophrenics who give over to their delusions, and many who fight them. One man hears voices telling him he is going to die, he believes them and accepts his fate. Another man hears the same thing, barricades himself in a room with a tinfoil hat and a complex series of avoidance techniques. It seems like the ones who fight have a little OCD. and clearly anyone with OCD is a little delusional. I'm not sure the two don't share a little brain space.

[Chris]

I thought this was the information from Jacob Cohen

"he goes about the streets and picks up his bits of bread out of the gutter and eats them,he drinks water from the tap and refuses food at the hands of others.He took up a knife and threatened the life of his sister.He is very dirty and will not be washed.He has not attempted any kind of work for years."

It doesn't look to me like any information was reported by Jacob Cohen regarding excessive masturbation? I think I'm right in believing that his family reported it at some point but does it say anywhere that the masturbation was excessive?

For some reason parts of Cohen's information have been omitted from some published sources. Here's the unexpurgated version:
"(b) Facts communicated by others, viz.:-
Jacob Cohen 51 Carter Lane St Pauls, City of London says that he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter & eats them, he drinks water from the tap & he refuses food at the hands of others. He took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. He says that he is ill and his cure consists in refusing food. He is melancholic, practises self-abuse. He is very dirty and will not be washed. He has not attempted any kind of work for years."
[London Metropolitan Archives, StBG/ME/107/8, no 1558 (Orders for reception of lunatics into asylums, 1889-1891)]

[Versa]

Hi Wickerman,

I disagree. Swanson also tells us that they tied his hands. Why mention that, then? All I can say is, in my line of work, 'with difficulty' meant force was neccessary. It's a definitely ascertained fact, Wickerman ;-)

Sorry to jump in here but the statement

"On suspect’s return to his brother’s house in Whitechapel he was watched by police (City CID) by day & night. In a very short time the suspect with his hands tied behind his back, he was sent to Stepney Workhouse"

would appear to me mean that his hands were metaphorically tied behind his back due to the close observations he was under and not literally.

[Versa]

Hi Versa

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-koz.html

Thanks reading it now, I had read it before but its worth re-reading!

[Versa]

I am also wondering if his delusions could possibly have been focused by an obsessive compulsive disorder.

I was teetering on putting a reference to OCD in my previous post regarding his refusal to wash but decided that its impossible to say from the sparse notes I've seen about Aaron where the refusal to wash comes from and as we know he was suspicious of food and water sources it seemed safer to go with thoughts regarding water contamination due to delusional beliefs.

It could easily be OCD, I couldn't even begin to say without either having access to very in depth notes or a consultation with Aaron (which is not going to happen lol)

[Robert]

Hi Versa

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-koz.html

[Versa]

The Shining One...

All of Aaron's symptoms point to elevated copper. All of them.

Not having looking into copper toxicity I'm not aware of the full list of symptoms, however all his symptoms defiantly point to Schizophrenia including the age of onset and progression of the illness. There's nothing there that would rule out Schizophrenia and we have no evidence to suggest it was anything other than Schizophrenia as far as I'm aware?

Of course, there is NO evidence that Aaron was "Kosminski" either, so all of this might mean nothing! Aaron did not seem overly violent. But according to Anderson and Swanson, Kosminski was clearly very violent...d'uh!

I agree from what I've read so far the pictures painted are of two different men.

On the other hand, Aaron's threatening of (his?) sister, reminds me of what eventually brought about the arrest and discovery of the New York Zodiac, although Eddie Seda did attack his own half-sister, not just threaten her.

That is a point that I have made a few posts back, Aaron threatened his sister... He didn't attack her and as I tried to explain (although Im not sure how well that came across) the threat to me seems to have been a fear based defensive action on Aaron's part.

[Versa]

The certificate says this information came from Jacob Cohen, not from Aaron Kozminski.

I thought this was the information from Jacob Cohen

"he goes about the streets and picks up his bits of bread out of the gutter and eats them,he drinks water from the tap and refuses food at the hands of others.He took up a knife and threatened the life of his sister.He is very dirty and will not be washed.He has not attempted any kind of work for years."

It doesn't look to me like any information was reported by Jacob Cohen regarding excessive masturbation? I think I'm right in believing that his family reported it at some point but does it say anywhere that the masturbation was excessive?

I think this could still be information gleaned from a leading question and not freely given as an important part of his behaviour. Privacy was in short supply in Whitechapel in the 1800's and I suspect that had that question been asked of most males between the ages of 14-50 the answer would be in the affirmative.

That being said people with severe and enduring Schizophrenia often act in a sexually inappropriate manner and I see nothing out of the ordinary about it.... Schizophrenia often starts to effect the individual in their late teens and as such their development in many areas is retarded.

[Chris]

Swanson also tells us that they tied his hands.

That was on a different occasion, though.

[Wickerman]

Good one....

[Marlowe]

Hi Wickerman,

I disagree. Swanson also tells us that they tied his hands. Why mention that, then? All I can say is, in my line of work, 'with difficulty' meant force was neccessary. It's a definitely ascertained fact, Wickerman ;-)