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My theory on Kosminski

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  • If Kosminski was the Butcher's row suspect, and he had sole occupancy of that property at night, it could explain the time discrepancy from Mitre Square to Goulston street. IE he used that property as a bolt hole, cleaned himself up and disposed of the kidney etc [ what better place than a butchers ], forgot about the apron potion in his pocket and threw it in the doorway on his way home. It would be tempting to think he used Carter Lane that night, but the time scale might be a tad tight. It would also be tempting to think he was known to be at the IWEC that night, and then Lawende identified him at a later date. Two murder sites, one night, you could possibly see why he was seen as a prime suspect.

    Comment


    • According to Google maps it takes around half hour to walk from 51 Carter lane to Goulston st. So the timescale 1:35 to 2:55 is possible. Just a thought if he was hurrying along through Aldgate and a City PC, without knowledge of Kate's murder might have known/stopped him. Hence the City PC evidence. Not at the murder site as such but enough to put him in the vicinity especially if he was at the working men's club that night.

      Comment


      • Hi Pat!

        Originally posted by Paddy View Post
        Interestingly there were a Family (all from Poland) of Lipshitz's or something similar (Later Lewis) The father married a Lachman and they lived in Spitalfields I did wonder if these could be relations of Aaron also. I will check it out in a bit...jacobs mother was Ryfka Lachman.
        Interesting! Lipshitz... sounds familiar... mmh...

        The dissolution of the partnership was July 17, 1891. Rob House wrote: "short-lived". No idea whether the Cohen/Davies/Abrahams Company did exist at the time of the murders. Of course, it would be possible that there was a connection to 51 Carter Lane in 1888. Sometimes I think that Aaron Kozminski/ Abrahams also used the name Aaron Davis Cohen (the names of his "friends"). It is speculation, of course, but would it be possible that the police found a man they thought it is Aaron Kozminski/ Abrahams (Aaron Davis Cohen)? And hours later, when they learned it is a mistake, they changed his name in David Cohen?

        Henry Cox stated: "The man we suspected was about five feet six inches in height, with short, black, curly hair, and he had a habit of taking late walks abroad. He occupied several shops in the East End, but from time to time he became insane, and was forced to spend a portion of his time in an asylum in Surrey."

        Sagar said: "We had good reason to suspect a certain man who worked in 'Butcher's-row,' Aldgate,"

        In the case of Cox, this suspect worked and lived in a shop/house. Sagar wrote "worked" there. But Cox stated: "He occupied several shops" (one of them in Leman Street?) and "had a habit of taking late walks abroad". If Sagar´s suspect only worked there other officers had to watch him at his home. Henry?

        Sims described Kosminski as a:

        "Polish Jew of curious habits and strange disposition, who was the sole occupant of certain premises in Whitechapel after nightfall" ...

        Henry Cox: You can imagine that never once did we allow him to quit our sight... It is indeed very strange that as soon as this madman was put under observation, the mysterious crimes ceased, and that very soon he removed from his usual haunts and gave up his nightly prowls

        Sagar: We watched him carefully... There was no doubt that this man was insane, and after a time his friends thought it advisable to have him removed to a private asylum. After he was removed there were no more Ripper atrocities

        Henry´s madman gave up his nightly prowls and the crimes ceased, Sagar´s insane man was removed to a private asylum and there were no more Ripper atrocities. Men who were watched by day and night it reminds me of Swanson´s "watched by police (City CID) by day & night"/ "Kosminski was the suspect".



        Sagar: A police officer/ police-constable met a well-known man of Jewish appearance/ well dressed coming out of the court near the square.

        Sims/Macnaghten: "The policeman who got a glimpse of Jack in Mitre Court said, when some time afterwards he saw the Pole, that he was the height and build of the man he had seen on the night of the murder"

        Probably this Pole (Kosminski) was the man of whom Sagar said: "we watched him carefully".

        Butchers Row, not far from Mitre Square, could have been Kosminski´s destination after the Stride murder if he had worked there.

        Sagar: The officers were wearing indiarubber boots, and the retreating footsteps of a man could be clearly heard. The sounds were followed to King's-block in the model dwellings in Stoney-lane, but we did not see the man again that night.

        Very possible a man like DC Halse (or one of his colleagues/City Police) heard the footsteps of a man. If I am right, it was at 2.00am when DC Halse arrived in Mitre Square, 15 minutes after PC Watkins had discovered the body of Eddowes. Maybe it was impossible for Kosminski to enter Aldgate High Street after the Eddowes murder and he had to wait somewhere near the crime scene. After a time it could have been easier to escape via Goulston Street, Somerset Street, Little Somerset Street and Harrow Alley. The latter street led to the rear of the Butchers Row.

        Comment


        • It is interesting that we find Sagar "about March 1889" (when "Kosminski" was removed to a lunatic asylum/Macnaghten) near the Butchers Row

          Times, 3 April 1889:

          Detective Sergeant Pentin had followed a suspicious character who entered 5 Duke Street, and was able to "communicate with" Sagar, who helped him to search the premises and arrest the man.

          If I am correct, between 5 Duke Street and the first Butchers Row- shop were 100 metres.

          Shortly before Aaron Kozminski was admitted to Colney Hatch (February 1891) we find Sagar again opposite Butchers Row when he was on duty in Bull Inn Yard.

          It would be possible that Jacob Cohen took Aaron Kozminski to a private asylum about March 1889, and again he took Aaron Kozminski to the infirmary in February 1891.

          In the case of Kosminski, maybe the police did the same work at the end of 1890/ beginning of 1891 (when Kosminski was identified by the Seaside Home witness) as they already did at the end of 1888/ beginning of 1889. That does not mean Sagar had seen this man in Butchers Row in 1890/91 again. A shop in Butchers Row could have been one of Komsinski´s previous premises (that was watched again) but he did not return.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Pontius2000 View Post
            That’s completely false considering there are two documented incidents of him being violent in the scant contemporary documentation about him. It’s also known that he was severely mentally ill, or do you also claim you know more about his mental health status than the contemporary doctors like you claim to know more about his violent tendencies than the contemporary police?
            Mentally ill people can have violent outbursts but you need much more to prove he was Jack. I don't claim to no more about him than the contemporary police all I pointed out is that the contemporary police didn't come close to catching Jack.

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            • A couple of them thought they did, but were prevented from arresting the culprit because they didn't possess the extent powers that, say, the French police had.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                Wicker man your a joke. He threatened his sister with a knife and attempted to attack an attendant with a chair. How is that not violent?

                Eating bread out of a gutter? How about eating human flesh? Which is crazier? LOL!

                You really need to go to bed dude.
                If you read up on this you will find Kozminski was paranoid. When paranoid, a person can pick up an knife in self defense, to tell others to keep back, likewise raising a chair is more an act of self defense, than attack.
                You didn't know Kozminski ate bread out of the gutter?

                Not quite the picture of a devil incarnate....
                Regards, Jon S.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                  If you read up on this you will find Kozminski was paranoid. When paranoid, a person can pick up an knife in self defense, to tell others to keep back, likewise raising a chair is more an act of self defense, than attack.
                  You didn't know Kozminski ate bread out of the gutter?

                  Not quite the picture of a devil incarnate....
                  Nice tactics wick.

                  I’m done with you and your convoluted legendarium.
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                    You didn't know Kozminski ate bread out of the gutter?

                    Not quite the picture of a devil incarnate....
                    Perhaps a picture of a second-rate ventriloquist. ("Bread and gutter, bread and gutter...")
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment


                    • The family I was talking about possibly related to Jacobs mother is Haskiel / Hyman Lisiak / Lewis who married Necha Lachman b 1860 Kolo. Poland.
                      (sorry It wasnt Lipsich)
                      in 1891 they were living in 5 Princes place Whitechapel as Hyman and Nelly Lewis and children. One who was name Kasriel (Jacobs fathers name)

                      Pat

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Paddy View Post
                        The family I was talking about possibly related to Jacobs mother is Haskiel / Hyman Lisiak / Lewis who married Necha Lachman b 1860 Kolo. Poland.
                        (sorry It wasnt Lipsich)
                        in 1891 they were living in 5 Princes place Whitechapel as Hyman and Nelly Lewis and children. One who was name Kasriel (Jacobs fathers name)
                        Thanks Pat!

                        Haskiel Lisiak and Necha, nee Lachman (1891 Hyman & Nelly Lewis, 5 Princes Place/ Whitechapel)

                        Children:

                        Kasriel

                        This Necha Lisiak (Nelly Lewis), nee Lachman could have been related to Ryfka Kozminski, nee Lachman

                        Kasriel Kozminski and Ryfka, nee Lachman

                        Children:

                        Betsy Abrahams (Woolf Abrahams´ Wife – brother of Aaron Kozminski)
                        Jacob Kozminski, later Jacob Cohen

                        The parents of this Kasriel Kozminski were Mosiek Kozminski & Rozalia Blechert, and Abram Kozminski (father of Aaron Kozminski, Matilda Lubnowski, Woolf Abrahams, Helen Singer, Bertha Held and Isaac Abrahams) was probably the brother of Mosiek Kozminski.

                        Jacob Cohen´ grandfather was Mosiek Kozminski, and Jacobs´ great uncle was Abram Kozminski, Aaron Kozminski´s father. And, maybe, Jacob Cohen had a close relationship to Nelly Lewis (Necha Lisiak) in 5 Princes Place/ Whitechapel, and like his mother Ryfka, Nelly´s (Necha) maiden name was Lachman.

                        As in the case of Matilda Kozminski (Lubnowski) (who married her cousin Morris Lubnowski) Woolf Abrahams/Kozminski married his own (second) cousin Betsy nee Kozminski, sister of Jacob Cohen (Kozminski).

                        Is there any information about Hyman Lewis´ occupation in 1891? Princes Place off Old Montague Street, between Bucks Row and Hanbury Street?

                        Did I understand all of this correctly?

                        Karsten.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                          If you have the background details of these incidents. Evidence to show Kozminski was violent, and not simply protecting himself (due to his paranoia?), then please share what you know.




                          Mental illness takes many forms, like eating bread out of the gutter.
                          Is that a typical trait for a serial killer, in your view?
                          Whether he was violent for no reason, or violent due to his illness is completely irrelevant to the question of whether he was violent. The “background” very much lacks details but points out that he was violent twice. The police experts who had the opportunity to observe him and probably question him stated that he was violent. So unless you have some kind of background to prove that he was NOT violent, then he was violent

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
                            Mentally ill people can have violent outbursts but you need much more to prove he was Jack. I don't claim to no more about him than the contemporary police all I pointed out is that the contemporary police didn't come close to catching Jack.
                            There’s no “proving” any suspect is JTR at this point. My comments is about the “weak suspect” comment.

                            Kosminski was:
                            1. Violent to some extent
                            2. Mentally ill
                            3. Lived in the immediate area
                            4. Suspected by several top police officials

                            That actually makes him a very strong suspect, certainly not a weak one. The fact that the police didn’t catch him red handed, which is pretty much what it would have taken before even fingerprint evidence, that still doesn’t mean they didn’t have a pretty good idea about who the killer was

                            Comment


                            • Hi Pontius!

                              Originally posted by Pontius2000 View Post
                              Whether he was violent for no reason, or violent due to his illness is completely irrelevant to the question of whether he was violent. The “background” very much lacks details but points out that he was violent twice. The police experts who had the opportunity to observe him and probably question him stated that he was violent. So unless you have some kind of background to prove that he was NOT violent, then he was violent
                              Colney Hatch: 1892 – Jan 9 – Incoherent, at times excited and violent – a few days ago he took up a chair and attempted to strike the charge attendant, apathetic as a rule, and refuses to occupy himself in any way : habits cleanly, health fan.

                              One could think that the chair-incident was an example for several violent incidents which took place before 9. January 1892. Of course, the notes show: Not dangerous to others and on the other hand he took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. Maybe he was not violent and not dangerous to others when he was admitted to an infirmary or asylum. I can well imagine that a man like Aaron Kozminski did show signs of violence only after a while in Colney Hatch. Who knows, maybe he was able to hide his "homicidal tendencies" when he was confronted with police and doctors.

                              Swanson´s "the suspect with his hands tied behind his back" does not necessarily mean Kosminski was violent in that moment. Maybe his hands tied behind his back were safer than his hands in his trouser pockets- Keyword masturbation.

                              Macnaghten about "Kosminski": He had a great hatred of women, specially of the prostitute class, & had strong homicidal tendencies/ He had a great hatred of women, with strong homicidal tendencies (Aberconway Version)

                              Homicidal tendencies are also a form of violence, violence fantasies? If Aaron Kozminski is identical with "Kosminski" it is difficult to say whether his "attack" on his sister (or sister-in-law) was part of his strong homicidal tendencies or just a paranoid consternation.

                              If Aaron Kozminski was Jack the Ripper what do we expect from him in an asylum? Jack the Ripper killed prostitutes. As an inmate of an asylum, which signs of violence could such a man show? A man like the Ripper does not take a chair to strike another man? I think it isn´t right to rule out Aaron Kozminski as a Ripper suspect because he didn´t show signs of massive violence in Colney Hatch or Leavesden.

                              And don´t forget it seems that Aaron Kozminski was still able to speak in December 1889 and probably he was better functioning in 1888 than in the years 1889/ 1890. According to Jacob Cohen, Aaron Kozminski did work, approximately until 1887/88. From February 1891, at the latest, Aaron Kozminski lived in his own world. And this world had nothing to do with his life when he was 16, 18 or 20 years old. Metaphorically that means: If he was Jack the Ripper at the age of 22/23 he could not be the Ripper when he was 30 years old.

                              Karsten.

                              Comment


                              • As with most suspects (I'm tempted to say 'all'), it becomes necessary to stretch the truth to make them into Jack the Ripper, Kozminski is no different.
                                We need to look elsewhere.
                                Regards, Jon S.

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