change in modus operandi

[protohistorian]

not a fish dance please! An honest evaluation of behavior.

[Nothing to see]

Who is only considered by me? You want a fish slap dance by a canal to decide this Dave? Bring it on.

[protohistorian]

No, he is only ever considered by you.

[Nothing to see]

Chapman/Kloswoski is only ever considered as Jack because of Abberline.

Why Abberline would link slash and thrash Jack with poisoner Chapman is interesting. Makes no sense because I can't see Jack deciding after Kelly that he doesn't want to murder women that way any more. He's a pro. Why change to poison?

Which makes you wonder about Abberline. He knew the area. Yes. I feel like I'm breaking a confidence here but just how smart was he?

I always thought Abberline was the man but I'm starting to wonder.

Was he just getting old?

[Malcolm X]

Well this has to be investigated and can be by going to Holborn Library at some point.

I am sure Cable Street would have been a rented business premises,Sam.However I was thinking more that London"s Barber shops mostly have and had basements----you can still see lots of them in areas around Cheapside.I used to know someone who took a lease out on a barber shop in Holborn a few years back.It had a spooky staircase down to a basement which she and her partner did up with fresh paint and made in into a place to sleep in .All it had was a sink when they first had the lease.
And no, Klosowski didnt need to actually "live" there,just be able to use it,whenever he needed as when for example , he badly needed a wash and brush up [late at night?]----all nice and deserted just behind the railway lines and Pinchin Street!
But I doubt very much that Severin would have let the lads in after hours----unless he was another Dennis Nielsen ofcourse!

...you've really got it in for this guy Nats, it's easy to make a suspect look like the Ripper, but take care that this isn't clouding your judgement and that you're not fooling yourself

now Chapman looks guilty as hell and Hutchinson looks equally guilty too, but life tells me it isn't as straitforward as this.

you're looking for murders in America..but i dont think Chapman buried people on his premises, sure; Chapman had a bizarre/interesting life and he's got what it takes to be the ripper...EASILY.... but this switch of M.O to a poisoner; although it's easy to understand, ...it still doesn't feel right.

the bombing raids of WW2 on London have probably destroyed all remaining evidence.... i cant see us ever solving the Ripper murders.

i've never known a suspect as guilty looking as Chapman, the coincidences are increadible...the BBC did a documentary on Chapman years, really good it was, the actor looked just like him.....must be about 15 years ago.. it was one of these ``true crime`` programes

[Natalie Severn]

Egypt was absolutely fantastic Dave.And the Egyptians were gorgeous-especially the men---!

[protohistorian]

Not really leaving Nat's, just scaling back. By the way, how was Egypt? Respectfully Dave

[Natalie Severn]

If Klosowski was the owner/manager, Nats, then why should his subordinates be listed in the Directory as well? In addition, it's still possible that Cable Street was a (rented) business premises and that Klosowski at that time lived in digs elsewhere. I can well imagine that, back then, the PO Directory was more of a "Yellow Pages" than a domestic Phone Book - at least as far as the lower classes were concerned.

Well this has to be investigated and can be by going to Holborn Library at some point.

I am sure Cable Street would have been a rented business premises,Sam.However I was thinking more that London"s Barber shops mostly have and had basements----you can still see lots of them in areas around Cheapside.I used to know someone who took a lease out on a barber shop in Holborn a few years back.It had a spooky staircase down to a basement which she and her partner did up with fresh paint and made in into a place to sleep in .All it had was a sink when they first had the lease.
And no, Klosowski didnt need to actually "live" there,just be able to use it,whenever he needed as when for example , he badly needed a wash and brush up [late at night?]----all nice and deserted just behind the railway lines and Pinchin Street!
But I doubt very much that Severin would have let the lads in after hours----unless he was another Dennis Nielsen ofcourse!

[Natalie Severn]

Certainly not sterling by modern standards. It would be nice to know why he left so many situations. About the bars, I would look at unsolved homocides around them. He may have very well been using them as places to target people. I would not put it past him. My school load is getting heavy, so I am going to be scarce for awhile. Respectfully Dave

Before you go Dave,it has been very helpful to read your thoughts on Chapman so I hope you get back soon.I too am convinced that he knew he was likely to meet unchaperoned women needing money in his pubs.I bet the earth under the floor boards of these pubs could have told a tale---especially after he had got rid of his last two wives.

[Sam Flynn]

The Post Office Directory does not have anyone else living there Sam,so it may be reasonably safe to conclude he did not have assistant barbers lined up end to end on the floor of his barbers shop in Cable Street in 1888 .

If Klosowski was the owner/manager, Nats, then why should his subordinates be listed in the Directory as well? In addition, it's still possible that Cable Street was a (rented) business premises and that Klosowski at that time lived in digs elsewhere. I can well imagine that, back then, the PO Directory was more of a "Yellow Pages" than a domestic Phone Book - at least as far as the lower classes were concerned.

[protohistorian]

Dave,
I think his work record was quite chequered.He kept changing location and finally ran several different pubs in under five years.


Mike,
He was hardly a mentally well cookie now was he?

Certainly not sterling by modern standards. It would be nice to know why he left so many situations. About the bars, I would look at unsolved homocides around them. He may have very well been using them as places to target people. I would not put it past him. My school load is getting heavy, so I am going to be scarce for awhile. Respectfully Dave

[Natalie Severn]

Dave,
I think his work record was quite chequered.He kept changing location and finally ran several different pubs in under five years.


Mike,
He was hardly a mentally well cookie now was he?

To be sure, Empathy to Severin was an act he played to indulge those around him. The danger with the nomenclature "insane" is that it applies only in the broadest and most simplistic case. There are several hundred conditions that could render one "insane". These conditions range from psychological on one end of the spectrum, to cultural. I am assuming, since you have mentioned him hearing voices, you believe he is internally incapable of processing reality, the obvious problem being his work record and mentoring which seem to have been at least passable in regards to their connectivity to reality. The other rather large consideration is the small number of serial murderers that are diagnosed with severe mental disorders.

Hi David,

That last bit I highlighted is an important consideration I think...many serial killers that have been interviewed post murders were of average or above intelligence and thought to be mentally competent when they committed horrendous acts.

I dont think its a requirement that Jack was overtly mentally disturbed at all, myself.

Best regards

[protohistorian]

To be sure, Empathy to Severin was an act he played to indulge those around him. The danger with the nomenclature "insane" is that it applies only in the broadest and most simplistic case. There are several hundred conditions that could render one "insane". These conditions range from psychological on one end of the spectrum, to cultural. I am assuming, since you have mentioned him hearing voices, you believe he is internally incapable of processing reality, the obvious problem being his work record and mentoring which seem to have been at least passable in regards to their connectivity to reality. The other rather large consideration is the small number of serial murderers that are diagnosed with severe mental disorders.

Hi Nats,

A killer might continue killing for many reasons I didnt list....I fully agree, including to obey voices and other forms of dementia that prod him along. My point was...that Dave commented on....was that a person who is satisfied in some fashion not from the actual killing itself but the acts that are performed after the murder doesnt seem to me someone who could later be satisfied by only murder...and a prolonged period elapsing before any "killers" gratification is delivered.

David mentioned watching them suffer perhaps as a suitable replacement....my answer would be that he had no interest in prolonging the death blow or stretching the moment out before...in the case of Mary Kelly if Jack killed her and other Canonicals....its the postmortem activity that takes the overwhelming amount of his overall attack time. Nor the murder itself.

Kates total attack timing should make that clear, if she is seen with her killer just before by Lawende.

Cheers Nats