Why did Abberline believe Hutch ?

[Ben]

Abberline was well aware of who Hutchinson saw, he has just interrogated him. The question, my dear anxious friend is, not who Hutchinson saw, but who saw Hutchinson

You mean all those flash mobs who pranced their way through the streets at 3:00 in the morning! Oh, they'd have spotted him alright. Or do you mean all those hundreds of people staring out of their windows with binoculars at that time? Let's be reasonable and realistic about this. The press claim that 1200 men were interviewed means absolutely nothing if the vast majority of them were in bed and asleep when Hutchinson was on his alleged walkabout, and of the few that weren't, a high percentage were probably engaging in some form of nocturnal naughtiness, and would therefore not have spoken to the police at all, less still to impart the fascinating observation that they saw a man walking at 4.00am or 5.00am.

We cannot say at what hour Abberline concluded his interrogation, but whether at 7:00, 8:00 or 9:00 pm, there was still three, four, possibly five hours, for his team to flip through statements

Flip through statements that said what?

"I was sleepwalking and walked past a man I didn't pay any attention to"

"I was walking to work at 5.00am, and passed several man and women".

If you were expecting those statements to provide any confirmation of Hutchinson's presence (specifically Hutchinson's), you're going to be gutted, I'm afraid (no, I don't mean in the literal sense!). Similarly, if you're suggesting that Abberline dispatched his team to do anything than pursue Astrakhan man before the latter could get spooked into fleeing or changing his appearance, then you'd best think again. That was the priority, not futile and time-wasting efforts to verify that which cannot possibly be verified in the absence of CCTV.

And all that is aside from the statement of Sarah Lewis, and assuming the detective force had not seen the parallel between her story & Hutchinson's, which is well nigh impossible.

...which is established more or less for certain, especially when we consider that not a single member of the press registered the "parallel" between Lewis's wideawake man and Hutchinson, despite it being there to be recognised. There is no evidence, in fact, that the "parallel" was registered until over a hundred years after the event. But do give me any excuse to go over the "Was the Lewis connection spotted" issue again.

Secondly, the phrase was not always taken literal (sic), it was a euphemism because to admit to sleeping in doorways or on the property of others was to admit vagrancy.

So after all these years of Hutch the squeaky clean witness, Jon suddenly decides that he lied to conceal his criminal activity. Welcome aboard, Jon…

Hutchinson’s claim to have “walked about all night” because the Victoria Home was closed was at odds with his earlier claim to have had no money. If he had no money, the closure or otherwise of the home is irrelevant, and he should have said that he walked about all night because he had no money to get in anywhere. It effectively disposes of the issue of an alibi, whether the claim was accurate or not. If you're "walking about" or sleeping in a stairwell at 3.30am, you simply don't have the means of verifying that activity, unless there were some people implausibly awake at that time and monitoring their doorway or stairwell.

Lastly, he may have met up with a friend, he doesn't say he was alone, only that he walked around.

Implausible "may haves" based on no evidence won't cut it, I'm afraid.

The chances of Hutchinson encountering a "friend" (another Romford reject?) on the streets at around 3.00am are extremely remote, and the chances of Hutchinson failing to mention this "meeting" had it occurred are more remote still.

A final point on the Abberline issue - well, I say "final", but we'll just have to see: there is no need to infer exaggeration on his part, as he would simply have been aligning himself with the views of Dr. Phillips at the time. If you want to claim that Abberline was lying to bolster his Klosowski theory (for what possible reason?), you can no longer argue that he is worth taking seriously as an accurate gauge of Hutchinson's credibility.

Regards,
Ben

[Wickerman]

No, you don’t get to plonk a load of strategically located Hutch-spotters on the streets or gazing out of their windows in the small hours, especially with no evidence. Hutchinson makes clear that he encountered nobody during his Dorset Street vigil,.....

Abberline was well aware of who Hutchinson saw, he has just interrogated him. The question, my dear anxious friend is, not who Hutchinson saw, but who saw Hutchinson.

According to the press, for lack of a better source, the police interviewed 1200 men in and around Dorset St. over that weekend.

And, to address your suggestion that there was not sufficient time, the statements had to have been disseminated for Macdonald to read through them in his selection process prior to the Inquest.
We cannot say at what hour Abberline concluded his interrogation, but whether at 7:00, 8:00 or 9:00 pm, there was still three, four, possibly five hours, for his team to flip through statements, which had already been categorized, Abberline had significant manpower at his disposal.
And all that is aside from the statement of Sarah Lewis, and assuming the detective force had not seen the parallel between her story & Hutchinson's, which is well nigh impossible.

[Cogidubnus]

You swine...I went to an English Grammar School, learned Latin, performed Shakespeare, (well it WAS the same school Paul Schofield attended after all), etc...except I bucked the trend and played Hockey, and it was the opposing Girls Grammar School team that was Neanderthal!

All the best

Dave

(PS Hope admin still isn't watching)

[GUT]

Pray for him, Gut, don't talk.

But I agree with the description Neanderthals butting heads, I love it.

[DVV]

Pray for him, Gut, don't talk.

[GUT]

G'Day Jon

Ouch!

My view of Rugby at that age was a bunch of Neanderthals butting heads...


My parents loved the game.

Probably why I loved the game, though Rugby League was more my game, more running of the ball less kicking.

[Wickerman]

I'm so sorry for you, Jon, sincerely.
Rugby makes the world better, so better...
Football is about treachery, malingering, put-on, etc...

Ouch!

When I was at school I couldn't figure why the Grammar School kids learned Latin, performed Shakespeare, and played Rugby.
Our Secondary school, we learned French, and woodwork, and played Football.

My view of Rugby at that age was a bunch of Neanderthals butting heads...


My parents loved the game.

(D'ya think Admin is watching this...?)

[DVV]

I could never get into Rugby

I'm so sorry for you, Jon, sincerely.
Rugby makes the world better, so better...
Football is about treachery, malingering, put-on, etc...
I admit English football is a bit better, more loyal... If they were only players like Steven Gerrard, I could watch some games.
Fact is that I can't.
I could shoot my TV !

[Wickerman]

As you like, my saucy son, but it doesn't make a better alibi.

Cheers

Agree, I concede it doesn't make for an alibi, that was after the fact, or after three o'clock, at least.

[Wickerman]

Thanks Jon, I stand corrected.
And still hate football.
But I know Platini was a good fly.
Rugby is my sport, I confess, and Peter "Fleming" Crouch was a memorable Ethiopian second-row.

Cheers

Oh dear oh dear, Dave.
How can anyone 'hate' football, it's the global game!

I could never get into Rugby, its all the 'huddle', the break and run, kick the ball, then another 'huddle, another break, another kick, and another huddle.....etc. etc.


Anyway, Hutchinson just may have been a Liverpool supporter, is what I'm saying...

[GUT]

Thanks Jon, I stand corrected.
And still hate football.
But I know Platini was a good fly.
Rugby is my sport, I confess, and Peter "Fleming" Crouch was a memorable Ethiopian second-row.

Cheers

Well any 6' 7" er would go well in line outs but nowdays he'd probably be a bit short.

[DVV]

Pork pun, part 3

I wouldn't put much store in the comment, "walk around all night", to the press.
First point, it was not included in his police statement.
Secondly, the phrase was not always taken literal, it was a euphemism because to admit to sleeping in doorways or on the property of others was to admit vagrancy.

As you like, my saucy son, but it doesn't make a better alibi.

Cheers

[DVV]

Psst, Dave,... thats Liverpool, not Manchester.

Thanks Jon, I stand corrected.
And still hate football.
But I know Platini was a good fly.
Rugby is my sport, I confess, and Peter "Fleming" Crouch was a memorable Ethiopian second-row.

Cheers

[Wickerman]

Alibis ? One or two months after the murders ? Hope the police were serious enough not to ask. Hutch's alibi for Kelly is that he was there, but then decided to walk alone (he wasn't a Manchester supporter).

Psst, Dave,... thats Liverpool, not Manchester.

I wouldn't put much store in the comment, "walk around all night", to the press.
First point, it was not included in his police statement.
Secondly, the phrase was not always taken literal, it was a euphemism because to admit to sleeping in doorways or on the property of others was to admit vagrancy.
He could have been fined, or worse.
Lastly, he may have met up with a friend, he doesn't say he was alone, only that he walked around. That friend may have confirmed that part of his story.

The tendency to use "I" instead of "we" when I am telling you what I did is common.
Diemschitz would also have us believe he ran alone along Fairclough St. but Kozebrodski was with him, but Diemschitz also uses "I", not "we".

[DVV]

Could it also be possible that if they checked him out he had perfect alibis for the other murders.

Alibis ? One or two months after the murders ? Hope the police were serious enough not to ask. Hutch's alibi for Kelly is that he was there, but then decided to walk alone (he wasn't a Manchester supporter).