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A closer look at George Hutchinson

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  • #31
    Hi Mike, I'll just throw in my tuppenceworth...
    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
    Just a few questions..
    1. Does the fact that Hutchinson didn't come forward until the Inquest was over lessen his credibility?
    1. I don't think it affects his credibility one way or the other.
      With this case, from our perspective, most of us accept that Kelly was murdered about 3:00am, yet the general public in 1888 did not know that. All the Friday evening papers reported that she was killed late Friday morning, after 9:00am. Even the Saturday papers promoted this belief. It was only on Sunday where one official opinion was published that she was likely murdered around 3:00am.
      I don't see why Hutchinson should feel compelled to come forward when he read that Kelly had been murdered after 9:00am, especially as he had already told one constable on Sunday morning. Hutch had been in Dorset st. about 2-3:00am, so what purpose was there for him to tell police he had seen her six hours before?
      What use was that to police?
      We don't know if he read the Sunday report, it wasn't in the local press, but it appears he discussed the case with someone at the Home, which encouraged him to come forward.
      When we look at the facts & circumstances in detail it all seems quite reasonable to me.

    2. Why would Kelly have asked specifically for sixpence at 2am?
    I thought 6d was the going rate for offering sex in a bed, 4d being the rate for the same down some dark ally.


  • I accept of course that not everyone finds it strange but does anyone else find it strange that Hutchison stooped down to look him in the face? It’s probably unimportant but it just seems like strange behaviour that apparently elicited no response from either AM or Kelly.
I think he was challenging him, Hutch stared him in the face to make him feel uncomfortable, to make eye contact in a fixed glare, it was Hutch's way of telling him to bugger-off. It just didn't work, maybe Kelly calmed Aman down, she clearly didn't want to loose the prospect of a paying client.

  • Kelly apparently needed money; she met AM near Thrawl Street then headed back to Miller’s Court with Hutchinson following. Why would they have stood outside Miller’s Court talking for three minutes before going inside?
    • Perhaps Astrachan smelled a trap, the man who glared at him sternly was following them, Astrachan may have felt uncomfortable, hesitant?

  • Why would Hutchinson have gone into Miller’s Court to see if he could see them? Surely he’d have realised that they’d have gone into Kelly’s room? Hutchinson knew Kelly after all.
    • He knew Kelly, but did he know where she lived, or did he think this was where Astrachan lived?
    Either way I suspect it shows he was anticipating the liaison being shorter than it was. He may have been planning to mug Astrachan as he left, I don't know it just may indicate a little impatience on behalf of Hutchinson?
    Regards, Jon S.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
      Just a few questions..
      1. Does the fact that Hutchinson didn't come forward until the Inquest was over lessen his credibility?
      2. Why would Kelly have asked specifically for sixpence at 2am?
      3. I accept of course that not everyone finds it strange but does anyone else find it strange that Hutchison stooped down to look him in the face? It’s probably unimportant but it just seems like strange behaviour that apparently elicited no response from either AM or Kelly.
      4. Kelly apparently needed money; she met AM near Thrawl Street then headed back to Miller’s Court with Hutchinson following. Why would they have stood outside Miller’s Court talking for three minutes before going inside?
      5. Why would Hutchinson have gone into Miller’s Court to see if he could see them? Surely he’d have realised that they’d have gone into Kelly’s room? Hutchinson knew Kelly after all.
      Good fair questions Herlock. For me:

      1) The fact he came forward after the Inquest is inconsequential in my opinion. The Inquest lasted one day and Hutchinson had been deliberating whether to go to the Police or not. He confides in a friend at the Lodging house who tells him he should. This is not unusual.

      2) Sixpence would have been the going rate for a soliciting woman with a room to charge a customer. It may be that she was friendly with Hutchinson who could give her the money to prevent her having to work on the street as it were. Alternatively she propositioned Hutchinson who just didn't have the money. I think Abberline asked him this because in his cover note he wrote witness sometimes gave the deceased a few shillings.

      3) It did elicit a response albeit non verbal. He looked at Hutchinson stern. I take that to me he frowned at him in a kind of get lost, what are you looking at manner.

      4) It may not have been three minutes. But if it was we will never know- Kelly eventually tells AK man to come along he wll be comfortable. So the implication is AK man was maybe not that fussed on going to the room for whatever reason. Maybe he thought there could be a man in her life who might return or that it just wouldn't suit. Kelly's words strike me as her assuaging his apprehension.

      5) This bit doesn't make sense to me. It may be the Newspaper embellishing the story. If Hutch did say it then it is one very difficult to understand.
      Last edited by Sunny Delight; 06-01-2022, 12:17 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
        Just a few questions..
        1. Does the fact that Hutchinson didn't come forward until the Inquest was over lessen his credibility?
        2. Why would Kelly have asked specifically for sixpence at 2am?
        3. I accept of course that not everyone finds it strange but does anyone else find it strange that Hutchison stooped down to look him in the face? It’s probably unimportant but it just seems like strange behaviour that apparently elicited no response from either AM or Kelly.
        4. Kelly apparently needed money; she met AM near Thrawl Street then headed back to Miller’s Court with Hutchinson following. Why would they have stood outside Miller’s Court talking for three minutes before going inside?
        5. Why would Hutchinson have gone into Miller’s Court to see if he could see them? Surely he’d have realised that they’d have gone into Kelly’s room? Hutchinson knew Kelly after all.
        Hi herlock

        1. yes, of course it does. he just happens to walk into the police station the moment it was over?cmon
        2. going rate
        3. yes, hutch wants to make it clear that he got a good look at the man. and that the man was not happy about it.
        4. they probably wouldnt.
        5. I think that hutchs aman story is fake. i think he may never had actually seen mary but went to her room and realized she was with someone so then stood outside the court waiting for her guest to leave, where sarah lewis saw him.

        if pressed I would say that hutch was a merely an attention seeking time waster who thought he could gain fame and fortune from her death by the ripper. i think he did know mary and went to her place that night, perhaps looking for a place to crash and or hook up. his story has all the marks of a contrived story to get police to beleive he saw mary with the ripper.

        however, of course the alternative is he was the ripper, and was worried that sarah lewis might have known who he was and /or ID him to police so he thought it better to come forward as a witness than be sought after as a suspect. it could also explain why the ripper laid low for a long time before striking again with Mkenzie.

        one thing i do know-he was not a credible witness telling the whole truth. everything about hutch and his story is dodgy.

        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"
        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
        -Frederick G. Abberline

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        • #34
          Thanks for the responses.

          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes

          “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

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