The Statement of George Hutchinson

[Ben]

I think you'll find it was you who introduced the idea of 'erroneous' information being 'fed' to Sue

Nope.

Definitely you.

In fact, I didn't even consider that possibility until you mentioned it.

So thanks - really thanks! - for enlightening me as to the possibility.

But pease don't back-peddle, in truly embarrassing fashion, by pretending that you claimed you knew that possibilty was wrong.

You never insinuated that it was "wrong" in your first post where that possibility was introduced, and even if you did, you'd be in error, since you've no way of knowing whether it was wrong or not.

So your suggestion remains a strong one, not that it matters much who made it in the first place. It doesn't matter if the hypothetical origin of that suggestion was new to the discussion either. He wouldn't merely be "forgiven" for submitting it for consideration. He ought to be congratulated, since its potential merit is blindingly obvious.

Because, my dear Crystal, a flawed expert is a flawed expert is a flawed expert

So, you're saying that an expert can only be "non-flawed" if he or she gets everything right all the time? Are you sure you're thinking these things through?

[Archaic]

KRESKIN'S KRYSTAL, Anyone?

Well, we needed another expert, and an unbiased one.

Hey, guys, maybe I can help. Guess what I got for Christmas? A genuine vintage 1971 KRESKIN'S KRYSTAL, complete in the original box. It is an advanced scientific instrument composed of a 'Crystal Base' (actually a block of Acrylic) inscribed YES/NO on opposing sides- twice each. There is a real faux-gold chain with an Acrylic Marble or something dangling at one end. There's also a handy 36-page Owners Manual which begins: ''Kreskin's Krystal is a Highly Sensitive Apparatus consisting of a Crystal Base and Pendulum. Its operation is based solely on sound Psychological Principles; there is nothing Supernatural or Occult in its functioning. Developed by Kreskin, Internationally Acclaimed Mentalist & ESP Expert.''

The box says: ''Use Kreskin's Krystal as a Lie Detector, a Sex Detector'' (his bad grammar, not mine) ''Hold the Pendulum over someone's hand. When held over a Female hand, the Pendulum will Swing in a Circle. When held over a Male hand, it will Swing either Horizontally or Vertically'' (!!! Duh.)

All you have to do is clear your mind, hold the pendulum by its chain, and Voila!- Yes/No Answers at your beck and call.
>> Any Questions? -Archaic (please don't be silly & ask who was Jack the Ripper- it has to be Yes/No)

As indeed, I don't. Haven't. Wouldn't. And quite right too. In my field of vision, handwriting traits are demonstrable from the physical evidence. I don't read personalities from text. In the case of Badham, ther3e are several to see. You can all go to Kew yourselves and look at the microfiche. It's free. Anyone can do it.

[Christine]

A document examiner is not a graphologist, although someone can be both. A document examiner does not attempt to determine someone's personality. A document examiner could express an opinion on whether Toppy was Hutch or whether Abberline or someone else made notes, but he would have nothing to say about personality.

[The Good Michael]

You know it's a pity we can't get a professional document examiner to peruse the signatures of some of the posters to this site.

That would be a graphologist; someone who reads personality traits from writing. Similar to tea leaves, astrology, phrenology, and religion.

Mike

[Observer]

HI

You know it's a pity we can't get a professional document examiner to peruse the signatures of some of the posters to this site.
all the best

Observer

[babybird67]

ahhhhh

so it was Kew in Japan you went to? Now i get it.

[The Good Michael]

i was going to believe you, but you told me not to.

Well, we needed another expert, and an unbiased one. Now I am it, or something like that.

Mike

[babybird67]

oh dear Mike

i was going to believe you, but you told me not to.

[The Good Michael]

I decided to pay myself to look at the signatures one more time. As I've been paid, in Bushmill's 16, I am now professional. Just a sec... um, yes.
Toppy is probably George Hutchinson. I can't say with certainty, but it leans heavily in that direction. No need for Kew on this one, left or righthandedness, and unknown fingerprints notwithstanding. I'm going to send Gareth some Korean won so that he might be a professional examiner too. Remember, anyone wishing to become professional too, must go through the rigor that I just have, yet, I will have more expertise because I've done it longer. Fair is fair.

Cheers, it is finished.

Mike

[babybird67]

Ally with respect i dont think that is fair...

many people posting to these boards do so under pseudonyms or are reluctant to give out personal details. In fact i often get told by people NOT to be so open about myself, as this is considered unwise and naive...still, i am who i am and i can't change that, i can only trust people not to abuse me because of it.

I am sure Crystal is an actual person with an actual name as well. How many people reading the Hutch thread actually checked Leander and Iremonger's credentials? None i would guess. Nobody would have harrassed either of them until they divulged them either.

Nobody is being forced into accepting or prioritising Crystal's opinion here...if you doubt, then doubt. It makes no difference to me. I dont doubt and i accept what Crystal has told me, that document examination is her professional field. I'm interested in what she has to contribute to a vibrant debate...note i havent said i take her word for Gospel and agree with her like a lapdog. But i am grateful for her insight, her contribution, her input. I'd be surprised if she bothers much anymore though...it would be much easier on her simply to share what knowledge she has with interested persons privately, if she is going to be abused every time she comes to the boards.

There was a reason for Fish being denied her details, one which i understand completely. There are other reasons which i also understand which make Crystal rather reluctant to post personal details on public boards.

And as for why a special case is being made: Iremonger and Leander have never created a false identity and misrepresented themselves on the board for the purpose of causing havoc.

i dont understand this...havoc? What havoc has been caused? Crystal has been to examine some documents and is kindly sharing that with us for the benefit of everyone. There is nothing even remotely resembling havoc that i can see. I also don't know what you mean by false identity...many members contribute here without providing their names, addresses, telephone numbers, professional qualifications, shoe size, star sign etc. I always understood it to be the circumspect thing to do to be guarded about private information on a public messageboard. I do not understand what has been misrepresented here either...unless you are calling Crystal a liar regarding her claim to be involved professionally in document examination?

You can believe that if you wish; i don't share your view.

[Ally]

That's because Sue Iremonger and Leander are actual names of actual people that can be verified and their credentials can be checked. And I may be wrong, but I do believe that when Fisherman or someone asked to see her credentials, she back pedaled and refused to provide them to him. So she does refuse to give people her credentials even in PM. She flat out refused to give them to Fisherman.

And with her name, and her credentials, anyone would be able to quickly verify whether they are accurate or not.

And as for why a special case is being made: Iremonger and Leander have never created a false identity and misrepresented themselves on the board for the purpose of causing havoc.

[babybird67]

is there any point to her doing so?

the next comeback will most likely be "well how do we KNOW she has those qualifications? we only have her word for it".

It comes down to personal choice: nobody has to believe anything they dont want to.

Personally, i'm happy that we have something new in the Hutch arena that isn't based on supposition and guesswork: i.e., the fingerprint. I am sure it will lead to supposition and guesswork, but something important may well be forthcoming from it.

Everyone is perfectly at liberty to discount Crystal's opinion if they have any reason to doubt it. Nobody is being forced into taking it into account.

Crystal invited enquiries as to her professional expertise to be made by pm, on the Hutch 1911 thread. I am not aware that it was necessary to examine the certification held by either Iremonger or Leander before any credence was given to either of their opinions; i wonder why a special case is being made of Crystal.

Have I said that you should? I think I've been fair. I'm not publishing personal details on a public forum. I have my reasons, which are not connected to anyone here in any way. They're private. I have nothing to gain by doing this work. That should be quite obvious to anyone reading the hostility aimed at me. So why would I bother? Really, there's nothing nefarious going on.

[truebluedub]

I'll second Ally's request

Crystal you haven't answered Ally's question what are your credentials? Why should we accept your analysis of the documents, over anyone else's?

Chris Lowe