Hutchinson Content---Moved from MJK crime scene thread

[Dan Norder]

And even worse than that we get the occasional moron who never used to infest these threads suddenly barging in where his presence is even less wanted than it is elsewhere

Gee, Ben... How on earth did you ever get the idea that you were in any position to claim to know more than anyone else or declare who is wanted here and who isn't? You've done what in this field again? Just tried to bury threads with a flurry of posts and then tossed off insults when you didn't get your way, from what I recall. I don't know if you realized you were in a corner with no way to support your arguments and decided to lash out with the first attack you could think up or if you seriously are deluded into thinking you're some sort of expert in this field. Either way it doesn't really matter I suppose. Go ahead, post as often as you like. You can pretend that these boards are your personal playground and act like you're king of the monkey bars but the adults have more important things to do.

[Fortinbras]

thank you for all your answer

Thank you guys for all your answer at least now I know what Blotch mean :-)

[detective abberline]

Blotchy face

Hi


His face was blotchy and red because he'd been drinking.

Bye

[Ally]

Fortinbras,

"Blotch" means large spots of color ...a face that has patches of red on it, flushed, or mottled with color. In other words, his facial complexion was not all one even color.

[Ben]

I hope the term Moron was not directed as a personal attack on yours

Rest assured it wasn't, Richard. That was in response to a distasteful and inflammatory post from someone else.

As for more likely candidates for the individual known to the 1888 police as "George Hutchinson" other than Joe Fleming, we have George Thomas Hutchinson, the watch thief of Cottage Grove, Bow who was known to frequent Aldgate and died in 1925. One document examiner, as I recall, believed the signatures matched. Then there's George Hutchinson of Shadwell who worked as a butcher and was aged about 32 in 1888. Then there's the glass cutter of the same name who lived, I believe, in Bethnal Green. Then there's the chap discovered by Bob Hinton, born at King David's Lane, Shadwell.

All fit the bill better than Toppy, whose name first appeared in the "Ripper and the Royals" - the content of which was retracted by the author.

Why is it impossible for a man dressed in attire described by GH to have met up with Mjk at the time in question.?

It isn't impossible. It's just very unlikely, given the time and location. It is impossible for Hutchinson to have noticed and memorised all the alleged details pertaining to the man's appearence in the time and conditions available.

Best regards,
Ben

[richardnunweek]

Hi Ben,
I hope the term Moron was not directed as a personal attack on yours truely, even if it wasnt, it is not the kind of remark i would conjure up for any poster on casebook as it is hardly tasteful .
To address your point regarding the ID of Gh, and suggesting other candidates have far better credentials then Gwt, would you feel inclined to share the names of such individuals with us all, as apart from a suggestion that a certain Joseph Fleming was a alias of Hutchy, i can find no named english suspect that is the likely candidate, and therefore i stand by my point that Regs father is the most likely to have been the original chap. like it or not.
Question. Why is it impossible for a man dressed in attire described by GH to have met up with Mjk at the time in question.?
Regards Richard.

[Supe]

Fortinbras,

Miller's Court resident Mary Ann Cox reported seeing Mry Jane Kelly and a man she described as having a "blotchy-face and carrotty moustache entering Kelly's apartment around midnight the night of her murder. Thus, a shorthand reference to him as "blotchy" or "blotchy face."

Don.

[Fortinbras]

just one question

I come to this forum very often and I really enjoying reading all theories and new idea about all of you. my question is what's "blotchy" face mean?, thanks in advance for your answer.

ps:Hope I don't bother with my question

[Ben]

And even worse than that we get the occasional moron who never used to infest these threads suddenly barging in where his presence is even less wanted than it is elsewhere, suddenly moaning about speculation and wishful thinking just because his own speculation and wishful thinking has been shown to be both flawed and dependent upon the existence of mysterious lost reports that went missing or got blitzed at a convenient time. Either that or deliberately attempting to obfuscate the issue by trying to pretend we're having a suspect-related debate when we're not.

This identification of George hutchinson is the only one we have ever had to date, yet we dispute this like we do with various other statements made at the actual period

No, Richard, it isn't.

Other candidates for GH have been mooted in the past, and all fit the bill better than Toppy.

[Dan Norder]

It if wasn't for the regurgitation of age-old misconceptions,

Well, of course the greater problem is that we have some people making up brand new nonsense and going around falsely labeling anything they don't believe in as a misconception, even when confronted with arguments that they have no way of responding to other than ignoring it outright and simply repeating whatever claptrap they convinced themselves for the sake of trying to make their suspect look guilty.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys,
The reason i stand accused of repeating the Reg account is he actually puts a face to the otherwise invisable man.
We have not only a identity of the man known as George Hutchinson, but a picture also [ note the Ripper and the Royals] before anyone disputes that this picture was not Regs dad, you might like to ask Ivor Edwards who saw it on the wall of his london flat when he interviewed him a few years before his death[ Reg] thus way after The Ripper and the Royals was published.
This identification of George hutchinson is the only one we have ever had to date, yet we dispute this like we do with various other statements made at the actual period.
Everything that seems odd in our modern day perception we discard, saying its just 'oral history' or yes.. but.., where as i tend to accept many statements as true, and many oral tales as possible truth related , and then try to look into the Ripper murders with a positive mind, not discounting possible vital sightings. like many of us tend to do.
As mentioned many times, i heard that infamous Radio broadcast in the early-mid seventies, i heard Reg speak approx 18 years before he appeared briefly in the so called infamous book, i heard him discuss his father who i should remind people was then just a intresting witness not the sinister shadow of the 21st century.
He was simply giving a recorded interview for a radio broadcast, the same as Mrs Longs grandson, or albert cadouches grandaughter etc etc may have done.
I should add the above section is purely used as a exsample as what is so special about being related to a person who knew one of the victims, and expressing any memories what may have been said when that person was still alive.
Not everyone lies, or is everyone mistaken.
Regards Richard.

[Ben]

No wonder these Hutchinson discussions seem to go round in ever-increasing circles; the same stuff keeps getting puked up again and again for no reason. Take Toppy and Reg for example - that old chestnut should have been discarded yonks ago, yonks ago, along with all the rest of "The Ripper and the Royals'" dubious content.

Same with this nonsense:

Are we seriously believing that even if Gh was not GWT, that he presented himself to a extremely paronoid police force, on the eve of the 12th nov and stated that he was in the presense of the most recent victim of the whitechapel murders, and had no alibi, unless he was being truthful

But we know that quite a number of serial killers have done similar things in the past, Richard, so the fact that you find it implausible is regrettaby irrelevent. It's akin to arguing that a serial killer wouldn't communicate with the police via letters, or that they wouldn't kill in their own neighbourhood. The record, quite simply, shows otherwise.

I share Gareth's frustration at the infectious nature of the Hutch virus. It if wasn't for the regurgitation of age-old misconceptions, it wouldn't be nearly as prevalent as it is.

Hello again,

As Sam has rightly pointed out, Mr Hutchinson's relevance to the crime scene of Mary Jane Kelly is quite limited, and is better served elsewhere. But I would like to address Richards comments before we return to the thread premise.

Richard, I dont think you need be offended on someone else's behalf, the issue of the truthfulness of that suspect account has been, is, and will always be, in question. When we talk about disparaging the memories of those unable to defend themselves, maybe its also fair to consider that none of these Canonical women deserve the judgmental scrutiny they have undergone for 120 years either, solely because they were suspected connected to a serial killer.

What if Mary Kelly wasnt a Ripper victim, did she deserve this macabre curiosity with her personal habits, work ethic or morality?

George Hutchinson gets what many victims and all alleged suspects get in this particular field of study, unfair accusations based on little more than hearsay. But I dont feel badly for him like I do for these women, they didnt ask for what they got, Hutchinson volunteered what causes his reputation to be questioned.

My best regards all.

[Sam Flynn]

There is no known cure, it seems!

I thought we might have a clean start - "From the ashes of disaster" and all that...

Ho hum

[Blackkat]

All right at the risk of sounding completely ignorant. My opinion is that George's account is and isn't true. Can I ever prove that - NOPE. I think he did see Mary, I also think he may have exaggerated and embellished some of his story, but we'll never know. We can't just throw his statement out,even if he did embellish it a bit. I do think that he saw Mary that night. How much of his story is real after that I don't know. I too would love to know for certain why he waited for so long -