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  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Really? Good night vision and a durable photographic memory would not be necessary to make multiple detailed observations under low lighting conditions, and to be able to remember the minutiæ three days later?

    Don't think you're right there, Jon.
    We have no idea the level of lighting, but Abberline did. So you choosing to argue that Hutch needed some special ability really exposes a level of bias.
    Plenty of people have an eye for detail, you know it & I know it so pretending this must be another special ability does little to bolster your argument.
    So long as his detailed description passed muster with professionals like Abberline & Stewart Evans, unprofessional opinions to the contrary are of little value.
    I would say I'm in good company.
    Regards, Jon S.

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    • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      The good night vision might come in handy, but the photographic and durable memory would be rather surplus to requirements, however.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ode_of_Signals
      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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      • Jon,
        You are correct,I do not know the duties of a groom,that is why I asked of your knowledge of same.Waiting for an answer.

        As to the two policemen you mentioned,all I can answer is that my instructors insisted that information be entered in notebooks at the time or as soon as possible afterwards,as memory was not to be relied on.P erhaps they were above that,their recollections so good they did not need to record anything.Lucky them.Perhaps Hutchinson kept a notebook, or Victorians were superior in their senses.


        The greatest assuption of course is that Aman existed. With no other evidence than Hutchinson's word,it is again surprising that two policemen would accept that evidence as compelling.

        As for lighting,I believe there is enough evidence from contempory sources to sujest it was not the best ,but luckily for Hutchinson the lamp of the Queen's Head pub was lit,and the couple decided to walk beneath it.Pity they didn't linger there awhile,perhaps more detail could have been noted,or Kelly could have introduced her companion,putting the matter beyond all doubt.

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        • Originally posted by harry View Post
          luckily for Hutchinson the lamp of the Queen's Head pub was lit,and the couple decided to walk beneath it.
          Hutchinson actually nominated the wrong hotel.
          Name was altered on the police statement without any initial.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(military)
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valet
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_worker
          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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          • Harry.

            The duties of a groom vary considerably.
            My mothers friend was owner of horse stables, so I'm not guessing.

            Here is a link you can read over, https://nationalcareersservice.direc...kills-required
            but under "skills Required", you will read:

            - good observational skills
            - patience
            - good communication skills

            - competence in riding

            I hi-lited the first three because they impact the arguments against Hutchinson.
            - That he couldn't have seen what he claimed.
            - That standing around for so long is suspicious.
            - That no-one could provide the detail so clearly.

            Another link:
            https://www.thebalancecareers.com/horse-groom-125750

            Grooms also presented horses at shows. They were the 'face' of the owner so had to always be well groomed themselves.
            The horses likewise, leathers & brasses if needed all in pristine condition.

            Police use notebooks (pocket books) because what they witness may need to be used as evidence in the courts. Not just because memory is fallible. A pocketbook is not for convenience, its a requirement.

            The existence of Aman is not an assumption. Sarah Lewis saw a man & woman being watched by another man (Hutchinson?) lingering in Dorset St. she didn't describe him of course, but the man existed.
            She saw the couple walk up the court - this much verifies Hutchinson's story.
            So all those "wrong day", or "he made it all up" arguments are false.
            Regards, Jon S.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DJA View Post
              Name was altered on the police statement without any initial.
              True, but it's not like the statement was public property, it was in the possession of the police. The actual hand that altered it had to be a policeman.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment


              • Agreed.
                That is the problem.

                There is the possibility that Hutchinson used Sarah Lewis' testimony as a template for inventing A man in company with Mary Kelly.
                Last edited by DJA; 07-11-2018, 07:39 PM. Reason: Last line.
                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                • He didn't need Sarah Lewis' testimony, only the jungle grapevine, which would have been buzzing long before the Kelly inquest, and elements of the Mr Astrakhan description had appeared in the press, and on the streets, long before Kelly's murder.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                  • Mary Kelly was murdered 9th November.

                    The inquest was 12th November.

                    Hutchinson turned up at Commercial Road Police Station at 6pm 12th November.

                    Do you have one Mr Astrakhan element from the press prior to 12th November?
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                    • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                      Do you have one Mr Astrakhan element from the press prior to 12th November?
                      Red kerchief, foreign appearance, walking softly... see Senise for other examples.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                      • Against walked sharply,Jewish appearance.

                        Red kerchief is a plus though

                        Didn't realize Stephen Senise was a 19th century journalist.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                        • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                          Didn't realize Stephen Senise was a 19th century journalist.
                          He isn't, but he provides a neat summary of what contemporary journalists, and their papers, had already put in the public domain weeks before the Kelly inquest.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                          • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                            Red kerchief, foreign appearance, walking softly... see Senise for other examples.
                            You really side stepped that.
                            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                            • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                              You really side stepped that.
                              No I didn't. Besides, if I weren't on the mobile, which I hate using, I'd have given a more comprehensive reply.
                              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                              • I'm in no hurry
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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