Hutchinsons statement....

[Observer]

It seems to be modern stuff in the street now, although the tavern still exists.

Hi Robert I thought the same thing, until I got a proper look. If I remember rightly I checked the lintels above the windows, and they were consistent with the lintels in a photo of the Street Rob Clack put up in here. I'll see if I can find the photo here and direct you there. Unless they have pulled down and re-built since I was there I don't know.

[Robert]

It seems to be modern stuff in the street now, although the tavern still exists.

[Sam Flynn]

If it helps, I place Gareth's theorising about someone pretending to be Lewis in the same category as Jon's theorising that Kennedy and Lewis were the same person.

Do me a favour, David!

I tend to think that Kennedy and Lewis were the same person, but it would be by no means remarkable if it turned out that Kennedy was one of many women who took someone else's story and passed it off as their own. The press actually tells us that this was happening; even without the newspapers, we could legitimately surmise that this sort of thing went on.

To put this in the same category as the far-fetched idea that Kennedy and Lewis were two independent witnesses is rather unfair, to say the least.

[Observer]

BTW, I spoke to a member of the family yesterday, and she said that they thought Joseph did finally get married because of his German ancestry, looming war etc., so they agree with you.

Indeed Robert, it makes sense.

[Observer]

Hi Observer

Yes, I'd be interested to see that picture.

Hi Robert

This is a suggestion, if you havn't anything to do, and you want a look now, why not try Google Earth? As I said Great Pearl Street is now Calvin Street. It could well be on the Street View. I havn't got google Earth, as every time I try to download it, it fails to download. By the way Jerome Street is the first right as you go down Calvin Street from Commercial Street, it was formely called Little Pearl Street. Calvin Street is more or less opposite Commercial Street Police Station, with the imposing Commercial Tavern on the corner before you enter Calvin Street. If memory serves, number 24 is half way down Calvin Street, on the left hand side. The numbers were marked when I visited the site. I believe the Commercial Tavern was in situ, on the night Sarah Lewis visited the Keylers, I couldn't swear to it being in it's present form though.

[David Orsam]

Not "Kennedy" then?

Well "Smith" was her supposed maiden name. Kennedy was supposed to be a married name.

[David Orsam]

To the best of my knowledge all the newspapers which first carry Kennedy's story came out on the evening of the 10th.
They all came out at the same time - evening editions.

What do you mean by "first published account"?

Alright I'll correct that to one of the first published accounts.

[Wickerman]

Yes, and it has been mentioned on this thread that Sarah Lewis used a false maiden name on the birth certificates calling herself "Smith". So she was not averse to using an alias.

Not "Kennedy" then?

[Wickerman]

No, you are wrong. We've already discussed this. Kennedy did not know Kelly. Stop repeating information from the newspapers as if it's fact. In the first published account of Kennedy's story there is not a hint that she saw or recognised Kelly. It's a later interpolation.

To the best of my knowledge all the newspapers which first carry Kennedy's story came out on the evening of the 10th.
They all came out at the same time - evening editions.

What do you mean by "first published account"?

[David Orsam]

I'll have to dig up the Ripperologist article, but I seem to recall that Chris Scott said Joseph Gothiemer is recorded as "Lewis", he took Sarah's maiden name instead of his own.
If that is the case then how can Sarah have two names, if the one that was not hers to begin with was never used?

Yes, and it has been mentioned on this thread that Sarah Lewis used a false maiden name on the birth certificates calling herself "Smith". So she was not averse to using an alias.

Why go through all this? Can I suggest it because she did not want to call herself Mrs Gothiemer? Or give her children this German name?

So when she spoke to the press, wanting to create the impression of being a respectable married woman, but not wanting to seem like a German woman, she called herself Mrs Kennedy.

That's what I said ages ago on another thread (and reproduced in this one at the outset).

[Robert]

BTW, I spoke to a member of the family yesterday, and she said that they thought Joseph did finally get married because of his German ancestry, looming war etc., so they agree with you.

[Robert]

Hi Observer

Yes, I'd be interested to see that picture.

[Observer]

No, not if the Sarah Lewis that Chris Scott found was the witness Sarah Lewis. Chris Scott traced that Sarah Lewis back to her mother and father, and she was definitely named Lewis after her father.

[Wickerman]

Well they were obviously the same woman because their stories were the same.

I've never suggested that one woman decided to copy the claim of another so your point is misdirected.

I've also never suggested that Abberline interviewed both women knowing they were the same woman. Why would you even think I said that? He only interviewed one woman.

This debate over Kennedy has been going on for years. I mentioned the two most prominent theories against Kennedy being an individual, you subscribe to one of them.

[Joshua Rogan]

I'll have to dig up the Ripperologist article, but I seem to recall that Chris Scott said Joseph Gothiemer is recorded as "Lewis", he took Sarah's maiden name instead of his own.
If that is the case then how can Sarah have two names, if the one that was not hers to begin with was never used?

Mrs Kennedy's sister was said to be a widow....could Sarah Lewis have been using the name of her dead husband, rather than her maiden name?