J. H. Scott

[Shaggyrand]

I'm open to Jack maybe having written a letter, the question is which, and if you can prove a suspect wrote letter(s) how do yu prove that was one of Jacks.

There were hundreds if not thousands of them, especially once the name caught on he couldn't have written them all.

He very well could have written a letter or two. It possile, since it was a bit of a national sport, he very well could have tried it. I was only mentioning another author who has argued, according to one of the linked articles in the post about it in the books section, for his writing ALL the letters (or at least all the ones the originated in the UK). I think attributing the ones from the US, Canada and most of Europe, were there any from India? Because those I would give to the real killer, would be a bit too much of a stretch even for Cornwell.

[Pcdunn]

I'm open to Jack maybe having written a letter, the question is which, and if you can prove a suspect wrote letter(s) how do yu prove that was one of Jacks.

There were hundreds if not thousands of them, especially once the name caught on he couldn't have written them all.

Probably not the American letters, at least. Certainly not the long one wriiten to the newspaper in Leadville, Colorado, complaining about the vice and sin in the mining town and promising to return soon.

[GUT]

Apparently so does Robinson. So that's two at least.

I'm open to Jack maybe having written a letter, the question is which, and if you can prove a suspect wrote letter(s) how do yu prove that was one of Jacks.

There were hundreds if not thousands of them, especially once the name caught on he couldn't have written them all.

[Shaggyrand]

and may be the only person who has taken more than the briefest look at the case that has that opinion.

Apparently so does Robinson. So that's two at least.

[GUT]

PS.
Patricia Cornwell opines that most of the letters were written by Ripper

and may be the only person who has taken more than the briefest look at the case that has that opinion.

[Jack Whicher]

Jack-

Maybe I overlooked it but have you identified other victims in your theory or only the C5? He was still rector for another 5 years, correct? So if there were no other victims why did he only kill in his first year there? You mention his wife and daughter in a way that, and I could be remembering wrong but you dd include them in the quote about strange unknown labors and being exhausted, might sound like they are being implicated as well. Is that correct? Any victims that you think would fit where he ended up after 1895?

Shaggyrand,

J H Scott was rector from 1888 until 1895

JR's killing started in 1888 and his letter writing stopped in 1896.

J. Whicher

PS.
Patricia Cornwell opines that most of the letters were written by Ripper

[Jack Whicher]

"Employment:
His job does not involve manual labor."

What's the reason?

In Victorian society middle class was defined, in part, by having an occupation that did not involve manual labor.

[Jack Whicher]

Yes, sometimes they just quit. Though his escalation pattern makes that highly unlikely. Those who are thought to have stopped usually its after they stop escalating for awhile, I believe. You did not answer my questions but I suppose I phrased them poorly. I'm sorry, allow me to rephrase. You've studied him enough that there must be some change you can point to shortly after of immediately before Kelly, a new program perhaps, and what about his wife and daughter also exhibiting the exact same behavior as he did to the extent that it was commented on in a quote you use to support your tossing his name in the hat? Have you looked into other possible victims in other areas he was in?

I am still trying to get information on Scott; I know very little about him. The turn of the century east end of London was an odd society. In 1902 Jack London lived in London's East End and wrote a book about it called The People of the Abyss which I am currently digesting. The poor in Spitalfields would keep the bodies of their children in their one room residence for days after death because they had to save the money to bury them.

[Jack Whicher]

All the medical discussions and FBI profiling examples are very interesting, Jack, as are the possible 'how's' of the murders, but I ask again, for about the third time.

What evidence do how have that the Reverend JH Scott is a potential candidate for JTR? Not other clergymen, not other serial killers, JH Scott himself. What characteristics, what experience in anatomy, what his attitude was towards women and prostitutes? What makes this particular man, (that you have put forward as a suspect), a killer of these women?

J H Scott is a potential candidate for JTR because:

Geographic Profiling

He lived w/in 1/4 mile of all the victims
He lived w/in 1/6 mile of the point geographic profiling established as JRs probable residence.

Anatomical/Medical knowledge

He had sufficient medical knowledge to supervise a clinic which treated some of the victims.
He supervised a mortuary w/in 1/4 mile of all the victims.
His mortuary had devices commonly used to transport human bodies as well as knives and equipment necessary to perform an autopsy, dismember, or mutilate.

Relationship to Victims

He gave clothing to destitute women (note that several victims had new items of clothing which they had no money to buy)
He made home visits to the victims
He knew most of the victims
His profession made it easy for him to gain the trust of the victims
He ran a late night shelter for destitute women which would provide a plausible reason for victims to go with him.
He used the death of these women to profit financially and professionally
He used the Ripper hysteria to solicit money for his church.

His age, sex, social status, and race fit the FBI profile for a Ripper type serial killer.

The killings started shortly after he moved to Christ Church rectory in 1888.

These are reasons why he is a suspect.

As to his attitude towards women, I have no idea.
he could have loved them so much that he sent them to heaven as an end to their earthly suffering or
he could have seen them as possessed by the devil, or
he thought it was fun to watch them wiggle as he strangled them, or
he thought they would serve him in the afterlife, or
he thought they knew his secrets and had to be silenced, or
he thought they were going to force him to commit unnatural acts with animals (I actually had a client who shot someone for this reason), or
God told him to do it, or
the devil told him to do it, or
He had sex with them and was afraid they would tell someone, or
He tried to have sex but was impotent and was afraid they would tell someone.

Truthfully the question doesn't make much sense because Ripper was a psychopath; his view of these women was insane.


Please remember that I see him as a suspect which is a long way from having definite proof. I don't know any criminologist who believes we can really prove who JR was.

J. Whicher

[GUT]

Well if we're relying on profiling, why not just accept Douglas' conclusion it was Koz.

[Jack Whicher]

Yes, I understand that it's a quote. You miss my point and again, I am sure that's on me still. What I mean is if all three are acting the same way, constantly working to exhaustion, how does that make it support your theory? You don't believe a rector's work can be taxing? If it isn't but his wife and daughter are in the same condition, either its from helping him or their own dark secrets. I mentioned it and in the way I did because I fail to understand how it supports your theory otherwise.

At the risk of answering a question which is not being asked,

Why is the activity of J H Scott's wife and children relevant to the theory that he is JR?


Start with the context of the question: "Who is Jack the Ripper?"
For more than a century, forensic investigators have examined the Ripper case trying, unsuccessfully, to answer that question. The body of available evidence has been meticulously assembled and thoroughly searched. Yet the question remained unanswered. If I was going to contribute to this investigation, it would not be by pursuing traditional lines of inquiry.

I looked at recent changes in the forensic analysis of serial killers to see if there was a new approach, something that had not been available to previous researchers. The new areas of analysis I considered were:

1. Robert D. Hare's 1991 work on psychopaths as functional, successful individuals was one of these. Hare posits that they can be successful CEOs of major corporations and social organizations.

2. Eric Hickey's 1997 data base of 399 serial killers showing the average age at first offense was 27.5 years.

3. Dr Kim Rossmo's 2008 and 2014 geographic profiling for Scotland Yard placing JR on Flower and Dean Street.

4. FBI's 1992 classification of serial killers into Organized, Disorganized, and Mixed; Ripper would be Organized. The characteristics of which varied from traditional thinking. Former FBI profiler Pete Klismet makes a good case for a type of Organized killer who hides in plain sight by appearing middle class and normal.

5. The top 10 professions most likely to attract sociopaths (clergy is #7) See: The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success 2012, Kevin Dutton, Department of Experimental Psychology, University of Oxford.

These suggested a new line of inquiry which viewed JR as a late 20s, early 30s normal, middle-class, clergyman. This seemed promising because other avenues of inquiry had been worked longer and better than I could.

So I assembled these into a rough profile. I researched the height/weight of an average 27 year old male in 1888 London (5'7"/155 pounds) and the average of marriage in 1888 (27.) Given that, there was a likelihood that he had children.

When I looked for clergy near Flower and Dean I found J H Scott. Because a wife and children are akin to camouflage I included them.

Do I believe they are culpable? No.



J. Whicher

[Shaggyrand]

Yes, I understand that it's a quote. You miss my point and again, I am sure that's on me still. What I mean is if all three are acting the same way, constantly working to exhaustion, how does that make it support your theory? You don't believe a rector's work can be taxing? If it isn't but his wife and daughter are in the same condition, either its from helping him or their own dark secrets. I mentioned it and in the way I did because I fail to understand how it supports your theory otherwise.

[Rosella]

All the medical discussions and FBI profiling examples are very interesting, Jack, as are the possible 'how's' of the murders, but I ask again, for about the third time.

What evidence do how have that the Reverend JH Scott is a potential candidate for JTR? Not other clergymen, not other serial killers, JH Scott himself. What characteristics, what experience in anatomy, what his attitude was towards women and prostitutes? What makes this particular man, (that you have put forward as a suspect), a killer of these women?

[Jack Whicher]

Jack-

Maybe I overlooked it but have you identified other victims in your theory or only the C5? He was still rector for another 5 years, correct? So if there were no other victims why did he only kill in his first year there? You mention his wife and daughter in a way that, and I could be remembering wrong but you dd include them in the quote about strange unknown labors and being exhausted, might sound like they are being implicated as well. Is that correct? Any victims that you think would fit where he ended up after 1895?

"You mention his wife and daughter in a way that, and I could be remembering wrong but you dd include them in the quote about strange unknown labors and being exhausted, might sound like they are being implicated as well. Is that correct? "

Shaggyrand,

The wife and daughters were mentioned in the document from which I quoted: The Review of the Churches by Rev. Henry S. Lunn, M.D. (General Editor), JOHN HADDON and Co., Bouverie House, Salisbureau Square, E.C., 1894, p.p. 92-93. https://books.google.com/books?id=hZ...fields&f=false

The tone and phrasing are the authors, not mine.

J. Whicher

[Shaggyrand]

Shaggyrand,

Why did he quit?

Assuming he did, I have no explanation other than it's not uncommon for serial killers to find other outlets for their urges and stop killing.
I refer you to the FBI publication: Serial Murder, Multi-Disciplinary Perspectives for Investigators:

"It has been widely believed that once serial killers start killing, they cannot stop. There are, however, some serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught. In these instances, there are events or circumstances in offenders’ lives that inhibit them from pursuing more victims. These can include increased participation in family activities, sexual substitution, and other diversions."

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder/serial-murder-july-2008-pdf

J. Whicher

Yes, sometimes they just quit. Though his escalation pattern makes that highly unlikely. Those who are thought to have stopped usually its after they stop escalating for awhile, I believe. You did not answer my questions but I suppose I phrased them poorly. I'm sorry, allow me to rephrase. You've studied him enough that there must be some change you can point to shortly after of immediately before Kelly, a new program perhaps, and what about his wife and daughter also exhibiting the exact same behavior as he did to the extent that it was commented on in a quote you use to support your tossing his name in the hat? Have you looked into other possible victims in other areas he was in?