Did the Seaside Home ID happen?

[Mr Lucky]

Mr Lucky,
Yes it is strange,that when one asks for provenance,in the Ripper case,and the questions become a little too inquisitive,legal considerations cease to be a concern.
I always believed that guilt by accusation alone,ended with the death of Charles the First,or was it the second.It seems not.
Kosminski has been accused of being JTR.No provenence tendered.On the word of one person,Swanson,and on that word alone,he has been condemned.No need to prove anything.

Hello Harry.

Surprisingly it wasn't until the early 1820's that the last of the old procedure was removed by statute, but nevertheless, guilt by accusation was indeed long gone by the time of the ripper murders.

Kosminski 'evidence' - like I said it's a ripperology versus reality issue.

[Mr Lucky]

Ah, so unknown location + unknown suspect ÷ unknown date = fiction.

The legal processes, I suspect, would not have been a priority at that stage. I cite Harding, Dilnott, Booth etc.

Monty

The legal process never stops protecting anyone , under any normal circumstances whatsoever (except under Marshall law) the defendant must have a fair trial, this is the criminal justice systems primary concern and will override all other consideration. It is always the priority.

I cite Harding, Dilnott, Booth etc.

Who ? You haven't cited anyone ?

[Mr Lucky]

No, there is no known information connecting Kosminski killing anyone, whoever just because we cannot locate it does not mean it did not exist.

Seriously ? Kosminski (the Polish Jew surely?) is innocent until proven guilty just like everyone else, this is a very fine example of the 'dark arts of suspectology' ;-

Let's believe kosminski is the murderer, which therefor proves the evidence against him exists!!

Ripperology at it's finest

[Bridewell]

Hello Bridewell!

Watkins found the body! Mitre Street (Mitre Court) was his beat.

[I]"and just before her body was discovered a police-constable met a man of Jewish appearance hurrying out of the court."

"A police officer met a well-known man of Jewish appearance coming out of the court near the square, and a few moments after fell over the body"

I'm aware that Watkins found the body, but the reference by MacNaghten was to a City PC that was "on a beat near Mitre Square". Watkins' beat passed through the square, whereas Harvey's went close but not into the square. I just think there's something about the Seaside Home ID (assuming there was one) that we're not getting - although I haven't the faintest idea what that might be.

[Wickerman]

The context where Macnaghten mentions this PC does not exclusively mean, on the night of the murder.
It could have been a PC who's beat was near Mitre Sq. who saw Kozminski in the area more than once.

[pinkmoon]

I'm aware that Watkins found the body, but the reference by MacNaghten was to a City PC that was "on a beat near Mitre Square". Watkins' beat passed through the square, whereas Harvey's went close but not into the square. I just think there's something about the Seaside Home ID (assuming there was one) that we're not getting - although I haven't the faintest idea what that might be.

The now world famous trip to the seaside hinges on one thing and one thing only that those pencil written notes in that book are genuine no more no less.If you had to try and think of a harder way to organise an identification you couldn't really beat the seaside story it would have been easier and SAFER to have the witness taken to the asylum and that is what would have happened.

[pinkmoon]

The context where Macnaghten mentions this PC does not exclusively mean, on the night of the murder.
It could have been a PC who's beat was near Mitre Sq. who saw Kozminski in the area more than once.

Surely if kosminski was in the habit of wondering round in the early hours would not he and many others be attracted to a murder scene by all the commotion.

[Wickerman]

Wouldn't someone who knew little about police work attribute the I.D. to some more obvious police related location like Scotland Yard, Leman St. or Commercial St.?

[Wickerman]

Surely if kosminski was in the habit of wondering round in the early hours would not he and many others be attracted to a murder scene by all the commotion.

Assuming he was out that night?

[pinkmoon]

Wouldn't someone who knew little about police work attribute the I.D. to some more obvious police related location like Scotland Yard, Leman St. or Commercial St.?

Very good point but our person who knew nothing about police work attribute might have to run the risk of the visit been recorded the seaside I.D gives us an air of mystery and a whiff or something unofficial.

[Monty]

Very good point but our person who knew nothing about police work attribute might have to run the risk of the visit been recorded the seaside I.D gives us an air of mystery and a whiff or something unofficial.

Go look at the Tabram muder, and the parades held at Tower Barracks.

There were no hard and fast rules re location. However, yeah, I feel to many are, in itself, giving the seaside home incident too much importance.

Monty

[S.Brett]

I'm aware that Watkins found the body, but the reference by MacNaghten was to a City PC that was "on a beat near Mitre Square". Watkins' beat passed through the square, whereas Harvey's went close but not into the square. I just think there's something about the Seaside Home ID (assuming there was one) that we're not getting - although I haven't the faintest idea what that might be.

As I said: Sagar -out of the court but 1x "near the square"- and Sims -in Mitre Court- not "near Mitre Square". If Mitre Court was Mitre Street (formerly known as Mitre Court) then the PC saw the suspect in Mitre Street or coming out of the Mitre Street and Macnaghten was right: near Mitre Square.

[pinkmoon]

Go look at the Tabram muder, and the parades held at Tower Barracks.

There were no hard and fast rules re location. However, yeah, I feel to many are, in itself, giving the seaside home incident too much importance.

Monty

Thank you

[Bridewell]

The context where Macnaghten mentions this PC does not exclusively mean, on the night of the murder.
It could have been a PC who's beat was near Mitre Sq. who saw Kozminski in the area more than once.

The context being the Aberconway version of the MacNaghten Memoranda and the reference being to nobody having ever seen the killer "unless possibly it was the City PC who was (on) a beat near Mitre Square", I think it's reasonable to conclude that it relates to the Eddowes murder and the night thereof.

[pinkmoon]

Assuming he was out that night?

Very true but it's quite possible that if he was the local lunatic (every town has one) then he might have wondered about every night especially if he was on a quest to find bread to eat from the gutters.