Did the Seaside Home ID happen?

[Jeff Leahy]

PC Harvey never reported seeing anything suspicious, though.

I wonder why he was booted from the force. Do we know?

Its one for Monty Harry…but I know he has always been curious about the tightness of the various PC accounts in and around the square that night.

The timings are extremely, well extreme

Yours Jeff

[Harry D]

PC Harvey never reported seeing anything suspicious, though.

I wonder why he was booted from the force. Do we know?

[Jeff Leahy]

There is no doubt if he carried on killing his luck would have ran out I still think it is possible that someone did see him shortly before,after or even during one of the murders but never came forward.

Well if MacNaughten is to be believed he was seen leaving Mitre Sq probably by PC Harvey

And if Dr Blackwells estimate of time of death is correct then Schwartz witnessed Strides murder

Yours Jeff

[pinkmoon]

Disorganised with organised elements would be my best bet.

It's only with the benefit of hindsight that we can view the murderer to be some kind of evil genius, because he got away with it. When you look at all the close shaves he had and the sheer audacity of mutilating women in public places it has the hallmarks of a disorganized risk taker. As for the killer memorizing the policemen's beats, this only works on the basis that their timings are always precise, and that the coppers are never ahead or behind schedule, or that he could lure the victim, kill them, and do his thing at the exact time needed to avoid detection.

There is no doubt if he carried on killing his luck would have ran out I still think it is possible that someone did see him shortly before,after or even during one of the murders but never came forward.

[Harry D]

Disorganised with organised elements would be my best bet.

It's only with the benefit of hindsight that we can view the murderer to be some kind of evil genius, because he got away with it. When you look at all the close shaves he had and the sheer audacity of mutilating women in public places it has the hallmarks of a disorganized risk taker. As for the killer memorizing the policemen's beats, this only works on the basis that their timings are always precise, and that the coppers are never ahead or behind schedule, or that he could lure the victim, kill them, and do his thing at the exact time needed to avoid detection.

[John G]

Keppel et al. (2005) took the view that the murders were planned and organized: in fact, they list planning as a signature characteristic:

"Seventh, the attacks were planned. The killer brought his weapon to the crime scene, and he took it with him when he left. It is unlikely that he needed to use the weapon to instill a sense of fear and force compliance from the victim since they were incapacitated quickly through stabbing and cutting...No evidence was left at the crime scene by the killer, which also shows pre-planning and organization...The absence of a struggle with the victims shows pre-planning and organization. His planning was also evidenced in his choice of public murder sites that allowed him to conduct his crimes largely undetected and to slip away unnoticed in high traffic areas...The increasing amount of time spent and the privacy required in committing theses murders would necessitate pre-planning and organization and prior knowledge and/ or familiarity with the murder locations. "

[pinkmoon]

PS And Jack would need to know the police beats, though he probably knew them well, that was taken care for him by the woman he killed, she would have to know her patch like the back of her hand.

The victims arranged their own murders

Yours Jeff

I totally agree with you about the women sadly playing a large part in their own demise.Who ever jack the ripper was he didn't have to be someone local he might well have been but he might just as well have been some one who visited the area to commit his murders.

[Jeff Leahy]

PS And Jack would need to know the police beats, though he probably knew them well, that was taken care for him by the woman he killed, she would have to know her patch like the back of her hand.

The victims arranged their own murders

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff
You need to take the FBI profiling method in general and FBI profilers specifically with a grain of salt. keep in mind that when they came up with the profile for the ripper and linked to Kosminski at that time they were no experts on the ripper case. half the people on these boards know more about jack the Ripper than they do..

I didn't invent the terms organised or disorganised…They did.

I'm just saying the experts I've spoken to and quiet a few Ripperologists say JAck was a disorganised serial killer and nothing that has been said here deters me from that evaluation.

And they will admit that it is an art as well as science. depending on the individual profiler-you can get a different answer every time..

Yes thats correct.

I also lived through the DC beltway sniper scare and the profile the so called FBI experts came up with was so off the mark it was laughable..

As you say profiling both Suspect and geographical are guide lines.

And as I said before-in there categorization of organized v. disorganized killers, they didn't take into account that non modern serial killers didn't have cars TO AID IN HIDING AND DISPOSING OF THE BODIES.
A major reason they classified the ripper into disorganized category-because he was forced to leave the bodies where he killed them..

Yes, no attempt was made to hide or dispose of the bodies.

They disregarded or downplayed his planning. Which includes searching for and targeting a suitable victim, the ruse scheme to get them into a secluded area, quick, efficient and silent kill, perception to know when someone was coming and when to escape, layout of streets to facilitate this, and probable general knowledge of police beats..

What planning…serario.

JAck ..Hey bitch how much for a shag

Prostitute.. Tupence half penny

Jack..Do ya do extras

Prostitute… No only basic

Jack …OK

Prostitute…Come with me, follow me , I know somewhere quiet…

Thats al that was required its hardly a plan, its just something he hit upon..remember the early attacks Annie Milwood were very different.

Unless you think he hid in the shadows(near where the victims were found) waiting for a prostitute(and only a prostitute) to come by and pounced on them like a Mexican jumping spider, or randomly wandered around until he just came upon a victim(and only a prostitute)-then the only thing that could be remotely described as "blitz" would be the moment he actually killed them.

No I simply think he blitz attacked and casually walked away. He simply lived near or had premises near the murder locations so disappeared.

And as Anderson clearly says , he was given help by his people

Yours Jeff

[Abby Normal]

Hi Gary, as I said Bill Beadle is a recognised author and was at the time Chairman of the Whitechapel society. Bill has studied the autopsy reports in great detail, its always struck me that the only thing we really know for certain about Jack the Ripper is the marks and cuts he left on the bodies themselves. Interestingly the various marks and bruises suggest the killer altered his MO a significant amount from crime to crime (Depending where you start and finish) Some being attacked from the front , others from behind, so I very much welcomed Bills input.

On Human thought and behaviour however we tended to rely on Harley street specialist Dr Lars Davidson.



I'm not quiet sure where your getting your definition from, certainly not the FBI. But I guess the word 'little' here is somewhat subjective. Theres a big difference asking someone for a debate on Plato, and asking someone for a quick shag.



Have you looked at the MJK photograph? How much more appalling do you require?



Again the difference between a conversation on the Big Bang theory and picking up a prostitute



Yes I agree. My expert advise was that Schizophrenics are by and large pretty harmless and in the case of violence they would expect use of an outside catalyst either drugs or Alcohol.

Remember Schwart describes BSM as walking as if drunk.



Both Kelly Smith and Stride show possible signs of struggle. It depends how you view each murder. My opinion is that Nichols was attacked from behind. Chapman from the front, Stride from Behind (Possibly with a legature), Eddows (More difficult) but if pushed from behind, Kelly was attacked from the Front through the sheets.



Yes I agree, see my previous posts on level of conversation. I personally think these women at least had seen him around. He didn't stick out. Perhaps he did offer presents (Thats very speculative) But he would have had reason to be in those areas. I think Pet food was significant at Hanbury street and Bucks Row.

But these women took the client to their spot, the blitz attack happening very quickly when they arrived.



Its always been a bit of a Myth that none heard anything. Indeed at least two witnesses may have done so. Harriot Lilly in bucks Row heard gurgling Noise consistent with the Stride attack… 'She screamed three times but not very loudly'. And Albert Cadoshe going to the tiolet almost certainly heard something hit the fence, which would match the later time of death theory. (Day light) And of course crys of murder were heard and ignored at the MJK Millers Court.

Actually the biggest mystery is how none appears to have heard Tabram being stabbed while still alive.

OK Lets look it this in detail:

The FBI profile described Jack the Ripper as "white male of average intelligence, in his mid to late twenties, who was single and had never been married. Hazelwood and Douglas claimed that the ripper was the type of killer "as opportunity presents itself" and thought that he "wasn't nearly clever as he was lucky"

Pretty much the conclusion of the Definitive Story documentary.

Amoung other things, The FBI profile noted that the Ripper lived near the crime scenes: had "poor personal higene and a dishevelled appearance"

Mrs Long "Shabbie Gentile"

"Was a loner, who "Had difficulty interacting appropriately with anyone, but particularly women" "Was mentally disturbed" "Was sexually inadequate, with a lot of internal rage against women" who "Simultainously hated and feared women" and "did not have a degree of medical knowledge"

As Rob House says in Scotland Yards prime suspect : " These aspects of the FBI's profile clearly seem to fit Kozminski"

The FBI profile of Jack shows he fits the description of a disorganised-type serial killer…"We thought that said Hazelwood"because of the locations where he committed four of five crimes. They were outdoors-they were on the streets or in a court yard- very high risk crime. In other words, whoever this person was, was almost oblivious to the risk"

This is supported in Defintive by Dr Lars Davidson.

Hazelwood " I don't see how anyone who knows anything at all about violent crime can say that was an organised crime" Hazelwood later added "The disorganised offender also generally uses a "Blitzstyle attack" and kills suddenly, often from behind, as the Ripper probably did"

I think thats fairly conclusive that my opinion that Jack the Ripper was a disorganised serial killer using blitz attacks is supported by most experts in the field. And at present I see no reason to revisit this part of The Definitive Story Documentary.

Trusting that clarify's



She was after money not a lecture on Dawin.



So does your average town Fox



Yes agreed. I also think that it can be demonstrated that he 'Occupied various premisis' near the murder scenes



As I've pointed out this is a Myth.



Hold on a minute…Isn't that actually what this thread is about?

That is pure opinion on your part NOT fact. The two people in charge of the investigation appear to contradict this statement!



I've been study these crimes for almost 15 years now. I've simply in that time eliminated the other suspects. I am more than capable of taking a Rythian stand point, its what I do..

Anyway I hope that clarifies my position on disorganised serial killers, I don't what to stray to far from the ID and when it happened at the heart of this thread

Many thanks

Yours Jeff

Hi Jeff
You need to take the FBI profiling method in general and FBI profilers specifically with a grain of salt. keep in mind that when they came up with the profile for the ripper and linked to Kosminski at that time they were no experts on the ripper case. half the people on these boards know more about jack the Ripper than they do.

And they will admit that it is an art as well as science. depending on the individual profiler-you can get a different answer every time.

Also, after reading several of Douglas's books, I cant help feel a bit of arrogance on his part-according to him hes helped solve everything from Jack the ripper to JonBenet ramsay case!

I also lived through the DC beltway sniper scare and the profile the so called FBI experts came up with was so off the mark it was laughable.

And as I said before-in there categorization of organized v. disorganized killers, they didn't take into account that non modern serial killers didn't have cars TO AID IN HIDING AND DISPOSING OF THE BODIES.
A major reason they classified the ripper into disorganized category-because he was forced to leave the bodies where he killed them.

They disregarded or downplayed his planning. Which includes searching for and targeting a suitable victim, the ruse scheme to get them into a secluded area, quick, efficient and silent kill, perception to know when someone was coming and when to escape, layout of streets to facilitate this, and probable general knowledge of police beats.

Unless you think he hid in the shadows(near where the victims were found) waiting for a prostitute(and only a prostitute) to come by and pounced on them like a Mexican jumping spider, or randomly wandered around until he just came upon a victim(and only a prostitute)-then the only thing that could be remotely described as "blitz" would be the moment he actually killed them.

[Jeff Leahy]

I absolutely believe this guy is an expert. I also know that he is guessing because we don't have the needed diagnostic criteria for this man. And we don't have it for most people we try to diagnose retrospectively. Nobody can actually diagnose Jack the Ripper, or Napoleon, or Ivan the Terrible, or whoever we bend our interest on. We don't have the necessary information. We can guess, and we can eve guess well. But we cannot diagnose. I absolutely believe your expert sees something he recognizes. Unfortunately, delusions are delusions, whether it's from schizophrenia or from not sleeping for 12 days. And we don't have enough to base a diagnosis on. It's a guess. A fine guess. A perfectly understandable guess. I just think it's incorrect.

People see what they know. And I do it too. I know I'm biased. I too see what I know.

Both experts I interviewed spoke with caveats and qualifiers. Thats how expert opinion usual arrives. Neither could give a precise diagnosis without one to one with a person.

They gave their opinion to the best of there ability given the limited amount of information available. YTheir opinions largely based on Kozminski's age and the illness development.

I think this is a nomenclature problem, but just in case I'm going to correct it. Personality disorders are a specific thing. Anything Axis II is called a personality disorder. So, Borderline, psychopathy, oppositional defiant disorder, antisocial personality disorder, attachment disorder, etc. All personality disorders. Can't be treated with medication, some can't be treated at all. It's not genetic, it's almost never related to physical trauma, and in everything other psychopathy, any brain scan is clean, so it's not structural. Some psychopaths have brain anomalies. Some of these disorders are adaptations to say, severe abuse or trauma, some aren't. A lot of people walk around with these problems. And they are insanely difficult to fix.

And I assume Jack the Ripper has one of these disorders. Most serial killers do.

I'm not certain if your 'Axis' would be what they call in the UK 'Clusters' in sounds like your talking cluster B. So I agree with that if they equate.

As I've said before there does not seem to be world wide accord. The scandivinians having different results, schizophrenia having higher proportions of Grandious in the far East. Its something I'd like to discover more about.

But that's not what I'm talking about. In modern times, someone comes in with delusions they are immediately put on antipsychotics. Which is how you treat schizophrenia. Antipsychotics will stop delusions whether you are schizophrenic or are seriously sleep deprived. So the pills don't care why you broke, they just stop the delusions. A schizophrenic may still have some cognitive difficulties, but they will be pretty much normal after treatment. So if you give someone antipsychotics and they are fixed, that's likely schizophrenia. Someone whose delusions are not caused by schizophrenia will still have the symptoms of whatever caused it. So if a Bipolar person becomes delusional, they are given antipsychotics and the delusions will go away, but the Bipolar will remain. So if antipsychotics fix the delusions but there is still a big underlying problem, it likely wasn't schizophrenia. And Bipolar or insomnia or PTSD, etc. are not personality disorders. They are Axis I or medical disorders. There is structural defect, there is chemical defect, they can be treated with medication. They are not diseases that are in conjunction with schizophrenia. They are an alternate diagnosis to schizophrenia. I think mania caused the delusions. So a mood disorder, not a schizophreniform disorder. But also not a personality disorder. Many of those tend to be tacked on to a person as poor coping mechanisms, so they often have little to do with major dysfunction, and more to do with small day to day dysfunction. Axis I disorders are why you end up in a hospital, Axis II disorders are why you don't have friends. as an example.

Given enough LSD, all human beings will have delusions. And as I've said before 'psychosis' is a dangerous condition but not only schizophrenics suffer Psychosis. As you have pointed out people with other conditions like Bi-Polar can also suffer ;Psychosis' People taking drugs have psychosis.

But delusions are symptom, and a symptom of many diseases. Schizophrenia is one of those diseases, but not the only one. Whether it was schizophrenia or mania, the killer likely also has personality disorders.

Agreed

Statistically they are less likely. They run at 2% while the "normal" population runs at about 7% or 8%. But normals also commit different crimes, so a schizophrenic almost never beats his wife to death, but he is also less likely to get or stay married. Schizophrenics don't knock over liquor stores, so they don't rack up the attendant death toll that goes with armed robbery, that kind of thing.

We've discussed these various percentages before and anomalies in different countries.

Are we really most likely? I suppose it makes sense, though more serial killers are diagnosed schizophrenic or schizoaffective after the fact by doctors conducting a one hour interview to determine competency for trial. Those diagnoses would never stick, so I never paid much attention to them other than to get irritated. I'm absolutely certain we don't lead the world, just the mentally ill community. I think apparently normal people still blaze that trail. Personally I would say Borderline people make the most sense as serial killers, but I have no numbers to back that up.

Bipolar is the correct term, because in the past 30 years or so they made the discovery that most people suffering from this disease are not manic and then depressed, the way the name would indicate. There is depression, there is major depression which is worse and lasts longer. There is mania, and there is hypomania, which is not as bad as full mania, and there are mixed episodes where depression and hypomania happen at the same time. And a sufferer tends to swing between two of these five states. So I swing between major depression and mixed episodes. I've been manic all of once, when I was 16. I am Bipolar, I have two poles. But I am not manic depressive and never have been. So they changed the name in the DSM IV, and now it's bipolar. Some people get offended by manic depressive, some don't. I don't. But Bipolar is descriptively more correct. And is now the official name of the disease.

Yes I apolguise if my comments caused any offence that was not intended. I can only add that the updated program will be looking at mental health in more detail we have already interviewed a number of experts on 19th century Asylums. It is not my intention to vilify people with mental health problems, actually the exact opposite. I will continue to treat the subject with as much sensitivity as possible. Its good to be reminded that we are dealing with real people and real lives. Poeple who have a pretty tough time and are often pushed under the carpet in the UK….much to be done

But I will say that we tend to feel things more than other people, not surprisingly. So while our impulse control might be crap, we are also are incapable of dissociating to the point that we can't feel what we are doing. And most people can do that fairly easily. Which I would think would make for a lousy serial killer, and the guilt is no joke on the depressive side. I mean, I'm half Jewish, half Catholic, AND Bipolar, so yeah I'm the girl who woke her father up at 2 in the morning when I was 17 to confess to smoking a joint, and I cannot possibly convey to you how little he cared.

Drugs and Mental health, not a good mixture.

It may not be lust at all, though I know the term applies to the areas of the body attacked and not necessarily the motive. But it is rare, and there are not a lot of other cases we can look to compare. If I were to guess, I would say that Dahmer and Gein are the cases that will teach us the most about this guy, but it's more a gut feeling than a reasoned statement.

Yes Lust or sex, in its broadest term…perhaps fetish would be a better word. But I'm using the word largely as Rob House describes in Prime Suspect where he deals with the subject at length with Hazelwood

Today it absolutely would be. I don't know how much it would inform his delusions, everyone is different there. But yes unless his frontal lobe was also deficient it would definitely not be recommended.

When I say that stress is damaging to unmedicated schizophrenics, I mean that biologically. Stress shreds our brains literally, we lose neurons, we shred telomeres, our electrical activity gets erratic. That's why it's hard to think when we are stressed. But we have healthy brains so we can take a lot. Schizophrenics brains are collapsing, and their electrical connections are compromised. So not only can stress trigger a delusional episode, it can cause their cognitive deficits to get a lot worse, and not recover. So a schizophrenic whose father has just died, say, who had minor cognitive deficits before can come out the other end with significant cognitive deficits that might not get better. The may lose the ability to communicate effectively. Nowadays medication offers enough support that the brain can usually recover from that, but clearly back then it wasn't available.

But in 1888 it might not have been a big deal. Death and carcasses were sort of all around, and there would have been ample time for him to get used to it. It would all depend on empathy. Nowadays we empathize with animals. None of us want to see a cow killed for the steaks we eat, and yes it's hypocritical. Back then the empathy for animals was not as strong. And while the gore involved with being a butcher was above the average exposure, that wouldn't be stressful if there wasn't empathy. Now in this case we are talking about a Jew and therefor looking at a shochet instead of a regular butcher. And shochetry (I may have made up that word) would be easier for someone with empathy for animals. But if they didn't have a lot of empathy, then they didn't have it. And it didn't matter where they worked or how.

I don't particularly see that being an issue with Kosminski, I think that his stress points probably involved his family. Speaking from experience I can say that mental illness, even when you are perfectly fine, puts a huge strain on family who want you to be okay, and often have very definite ideas as to how that needs to happen, and it's constant pushing. It's why I don't blame him for pulling a knife on his sister. I punched my sister in the face. It's the nagging that is just infuriating, frustrating, and scary. You'll do anything to stop it and get away.

I'm trying to piece together more about Aarons family environment, his wider family and the trades they undertook.

While his brother was a master Taylor, and his brother in law a Boot maker, His grandfather on his Mothers side was a Butcher. So he grew up in these environments. "He occupied several premises"

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

I remember it well, Jeff. The problem is that, as a qualified psychologist, I don’t happen to share your confidence in Bill Beadle’s expertise in human thought and behaviour.

Hi Gary, as I said Bill Beadle is a recognised author and was at the time Chairman of the Whitechapel society. Bill has studied the autopsy reports in great detail, its always struck me that the only thing we really know for certain about Jack the Ripper is the marks and cuts he left on the bodies themselves. Interestingly the various marks and bruises suggest the killer altered his MO a significant amount from crime to crime (Depending where you start and finish) Some being attacked from the front , others from behind, so I very much welcomed Bills input.

On Human thought and behaviour however we tended to rely on Harley street specialist Dr Lars Davidson.

In criminological terms the blitz attack is one where in there is little to no interaction between the offender and victim prior to violence taking place.

I'm not quiet sure where your getting your definition from, certainly not the FBI. But I guess the word 'little' here is somewhat subjective. Theres a big difference asking someone for a debate on Plato, and asking someone for a quick shag.

Indeed, in many cases first contact between the victim and assailant is the attack. It is ferocious, unremitting and often results in the most appalling of injuries.

Have you looked at the MJK photograph? How much more appalling do you require?

More often than not the blitz-style assault is perpetrated by an offender who lacks the confidence or ability to control a victim verbally.

Again the difference between a conversation on the Big Bang theory and picking up a prostitute

The chances are that such an assailant will either be suffering from some severe psychological impairment or his behaviour will have been influenced by alcohol or drugs.

Yes I agree. My expert advise was that Schizophrenics are by and large pretty harmless and in the case of violence they would expect use of an outside catalyst either drugs or Alcohol.

Remember Schwart describes BSM as walking as if drunk.

In most cases the victim’s arms and hands will exhibit defence injuries sustained during the initial stage of the attack.

Both Kelly Smith and Stride show possible signs of struggle. It depends how you view each murder. My opinion is that Nichols was attacked from behind. Chapman from the front, Stride from Behind (Possibly with a legature), Eddows (More difficult) but if pushed from behind, Kelly was attacked from the Front through the sheets.

If Mrs Long’s observations are to be relied upon we know that Annie Chapman spoke to her killer prior to entering the Hanbury Street crime scene. We can also be confident that Kate Eddowes chatted with her slayer shortly before accompanying him to Mitre Square. So where was the blitz attack in these two cases?

Yes I agree, see my previous posts on level of conversation. I personally think these women at least had seen him around. He didn't stick out. Perhaps he did offer presents (Thats very speculative) But he would have had reason to be in those areas. I think Pet food was significant at Hanbury street and Bucks Row.

But these women took the client to their spot, the blitz attack happening very quickly when they arrived.

Where were the defence wounds? Where was the noise that almost invariably accompanies the blitz attack? No-one heard a thing – least of all George Morris who was awake, alert and merely feet from Eddowes when she met her end?

Its always been a bit of a Myth that none heard anything. Indeed at least two witnesses may have done so. Harriot Lilly in bucks Row heard gurgling Noise consistent with the Stride attack… 'She screamed three times but not very loudly'. And Albert Cadoshe going to the tiolet almost certainly heard something hit the fence, which would match the later time of death theory. (Day light) And of course crys of murder were heard and ignored at the MJK Millers Court.

Actually the biggest mystery is how none appears to have heard Tabram being stabbed while still alive.

Sorry, Jeff, but the notion of the Ripper as a blitz attacker is a myth.

OK Lets look it this in detail:

The FBI profile described Jack the Ripper as "white male of average intelligence, in his mid to late twenties, who was single and had never been married. Hazelwood and Douglas claimed that the ripper was the type of killer "as opportunity presents itself" and thought that he "wasn't nearly clever as he was lucky"

Pretty much the conclusion of the Definitive Story documentary.

Amoung other things, The FBI profile noted that the Ripper lived near the crime scenes: had "poor personal higene and a dishevelled appearance"

Mrs Long "Shabbie Gentile"

"Was a loner, who "Had difficulty interacting appropriately with anyone, but particularly women" "Was mentally disturbed" "Was sexually inadequate, with a lot of internal rage against women" who "Simultainously hated and feared women" and "did not have a degree of medical knowledge"

As Rob House says in Scotland Yards prime suspect : " These aspects of the FBI's profile clearly seem to fit Kozminski"

The FBI profile of Jack shows he fits the description of a disorganised-type serial killer…"We thought that said Hazelwood"because of the locations where he committed four of five crimes. They were outdoors-they were on the streets or in a court yard- very high risk crime. In other words, whoever this person was, was almost oblivious to the risk"

This is supported in Defintive by Dr Lars Davidson.

Hazelwood " I don't see how anyone who knows anything at all about violent crime can say that was an organised crime" Hazelwood later added "The disorganised offender also generally uses a "Blitzstyle attack" and kills suddenly, often from behind, as the Ripper probably did"

I think thats fairly conclusive that my opinion that Jack the Ripper was a disorganised serial killer using blitz attacks is supported by most experts in the field. And at present I see no reason to revisit this part of The Definitive Story Documentary.

Trusting that clarify's

We know well enough how he conducted himself shortly before the Eddowes murder because he was observed by Lawende and party. He was non-threatening; she was perfectly relaxed in his company.

She was after money not a lecture on Dawin.

He killed in the small hours which meant that he was seen by few potential witnesses.

So does your average town Fox

He operated in an area with which he was clearly intimately acquainted. He preyed exclusively on the most vulnerable of adult targets.

Yes agreed. I also think that it can be demonstrated that he 'Occupied various premisis' near the murder scenes

He was never seen or heard at any one of his crime scenes.

As I've pointed out this is a Myth.

Despite the best efforts of two police forces, the best medical minds around, the combined resources of the press, the introduction of vigilance patrols and the co-operation of the general public, he remained unidentified.

Hold on a minute…Isn't that actually what this thread is about?

That is pure opinion on your part NOT fact. The two people in charge of the investigation appear to contradict this statement!

I’m sorry, Jeff, but if you fail to see an underlying intelligence in the Ripper’s crimes I can only conclude that you’ve been unduly influenced by your seeming fixation with Kosminski. Perhaps it’s time to take a step back and review these murders from a more objective standpoint.

I've been study these crimes for almost 15 years now. I've simply in that time eliminated the other suspects. I am more than capable of taking a Rythian stand point, its what I do..

Anyway I hope that clarifies my position on disorganised serial killers, I don't what to stray to far from the ID and when it happened at the heart of this thread

Many thanks

Yours Jeff

[Paddy]

In the general press coverage overall.
Its a bit off thread and it was just an observation really.
Apologies...I think its time I turned in....
Pat.....

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks Tom, I will have a read about him in a mo. The suspects all seem to be so mixed up one wonders if this was a deliberate ploy on the part of the police to confuse?
Pat...............

Hi Paddy, as pertains to what? The Macnaghten memoranda? Swanson marginalia? Contemporary press? If Swanson was confused when writing his marginalia, I'm sure it was a genuine confusion and not an attempt to mislead. The Mac Mem is a little more open to debate.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Paddy]

Leather Apron

Thanks Tom, I will have a read about him in a mo. The suspects all seem to be so mixed up one wonders if this was a deliberate ploy on the part of the police to confuse?
Pat...............