Did the Seaside Home ID happen?

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi TM

Kosminski had been incarcerated for three years already, when Mcnaughten joined? really?

My mistake that referred to when MM wrote the memo thank you for pointing that out to me

The 1896 "winters coming" letter proves the ripper investigation was still open, let alone the ripper being "reinvented" in 1894.

But that doesn't prove it wasn't gathering dust in 1894. Clearly there was not, or had been very few positive developments if the best MM could come up with was those on his list as I said merely persons of interest not prime suspects

In the MM, the "...strongly resembled.." part seems to corroborate a possible witness/suspect ID of some sort.

That could be in relation to one of the many "descriptions" given to the police from witnesses who though they saw the killer

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Wickerman]

I think it's very unlikely that when someone says: "the seaside home" they mean something else, or people's minds have unravelled over time. I find these to be bizarre suggestions.
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I simply find the odds that someone became confused to be extremely long, and less likely than a document which turned up 100 years after the event being created.

Hi FM.

You think it unlikely that someone recalling events from 20 years previous would make errors?

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Jeff

[QUOTE=Jeff Leahy;340642]
And I'd agree that the file was gathering dust when MacNaughten got hold of it to write his Memo…that is what I am arguing…It had been gathering dust sine March 1889. Almost five years. (Unless Swanson took it out of mouth balls briefly to refresh his memory in 1890)

Where do you get 5 years from ?

McNaughten had nothing to do with the Ripper investigation. He was assistant Constable in June 1889, so his seat wasn't warm by the time of the McKanzie murder.

He was ACC from 1889 until 1890

Anderson and Swanson however had been in the forefront. So if Anderson had someone claiming a family member was the Whitechapel murderer who else would he ask to fix it? And of course he'd be acting on specific information that the suspect lived a few hundred yards from the Stride murder scene… To Kozminski was ID'd for the Stride murder.

Hundreds of men who could be looked upon as likely suspects all lived close to all the murder sites what makes Kosminski so special and when do you suggest this Kosminski ID took place?


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[pinkmoon]

There must have been a much easier way to organise this identification and I'm sure in such a serious case as this the asylum authorities would have been very supportive to the police .

[Trevor Marriott]

There must have been a much easier way to organise this identification and I'm sure in such a serious case as this the asylum authorities would have been very supportive to the police .

Ah, but would they, could a person deemed insane be capable of firstly knowing what was going on, and secondly giving his consent, and would the asylum authorities allow such a person to be taken out. I doubt it very much.

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[Jonathan H]

It won't fly, Jeff, the word "were" can simply mean he was being emphatic that the murderer was a maniac, not that he had somebody in particular in mind.

Because if Anderson had a suspect in mind he would have said so, as he did from 1895 onwards--without ever providing enough data that his suspect could be outed.

To F. Mac

I find it bizarre that you think people do not make mistakes of recall, especially ones that make themselves look better--or feel better--regarding a mistake, or a failure, or a professional humiliation. It is a symptom of old age to the point of being a long-standing comedic cliche.

Anderson in 1908 confused the pipes found at the MacKenzie and Kelly murders (and falsely blamed ther wrong people) and confused the Liberal Homer Sec. of 1886--a Liberal, the party he despised--with the Tory Henry Matthews of 1888. He rubbished a Liberal administration for putting him unde pressure.

Do you think he was lying?

The other telling aspect of Anderson's errors are that he proves he had a capacity to telescope events and people over several years into the autumn of terror. Just like the Swanson Marginalia.

[Abby Normal]

There must have been a much easier way to organise this identification and I'm sure in such a serious case as this the asylum authorities would have been very supportive to the police .

I don't know about that pink, I Beleive the dr.s in the issenschmidt case would not allow the police to take him for an ID parade.

[harry]

How many Jews were arrested in connection to the ripper murders,or indeed any other murders,it is known Pizer was.How many riots ensued as a result?Why should Kosminski's arrest trigger a riot?

[Trevor Marriott]

I don't know about that pink, I Beleive the dr.s in the issenschmidt case would not allow the police to take him for an ID parade.

Thank you for adding corroboration to what I put in #290

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[pinkmoon]

Ah, but would they, could a person deemed insane be capable of firstly knowing what was going on, and secondly giving his consent, and would the asylum authorities allow such a person to be taken out. I doubt it very much.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

The easiest way would be to take the witness to the asylum wouldn't be hard to organise would be very straightforward I just can't see them carting someone of such a distance.

[Monty]

Thank you for adding corroboration to what I put in #290

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

294 posts later and the "with great difficulty" penny finally drops.

Of course, that puts a complete different slant on the parade for those who are unable to comprehend that conviction wasn't the primary reason for the event in the first place.

Now, back to yer tail chasing, catch you in another 294 posts.

Monty

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff

Where do you get 5 years from ?

March 89 File closed.

MacNaughten Memoranda writen (April?) 1894

McNaughten had nothing to do with the Ripper investigation. He was assistant Constable in June 1889, so his seat wasn't warm by the time of the McKanzie murder.

He was ACC from 1889 until 1890

Thats what I just said. What I don't know is the exact month in 1890 MacNaughten took his responsibilities. My guess however is that he would be involved in new cases not old ones like the Whitechapel murders. I'm not aware MacNaughten had any direct involvement in the JtR case, other than writing the MacNaughten Memoranda.

Hundreds of men who could be looked upon as likely suspects all lived close to all the murder sites what makes Kosminski so special and when do you suggest this Kosminski ID took place?
www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Kozminski first came to the attention of police, I believe, on the 14th October 1888. When arrested in connection with a bloody shirt in Batty Street. Hence why there were no more murders until 9th Nov, by which time the suspect who believed he was being followed changed his appearance.

Kozminski's family lived in Greenfield Street and Provenance street. As I child they had lived almost next door to Dutfeild yard..

If this was information you were aware of which murder would you start investigating?

Yours Jeff

[Trevor Marriott]

294 posts later and the "with great difficulty" penny finally drops.

Of course, that puts a complete different slant on the parade for those who are unable to comprehend that conviction wasn't the primary reason for the event in the first place.

Now, back to yer tail chasing, catch you in another 294 posts.

Monty

If you cant post anything constructive you might be best advised to post nothing. Your snide comments do you know justice at all.

Like I said before I have been involved in more ID parades in all different forms than you have have had hot dinners.So please do not patronize me in relation to matters appertaining to them. My experience in them has not been gathered by reading a book like yours.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Jeff Leahy]

It won't fly, Jeff, the word "were" can simply mean he was being emphatic that the murderer was a maniac, not that he had somebody in particular in mind.

Because if Anderson had a suspect in mind he would have said so, as he did from 1895 onwards--without ever providing enough data that his suspect could be outed.

Its quite clear that in Sept 1889 Anderson didn't have a clue.. This is in total contrast to the statement made in 1892 where he clearly talks about a Maniac revelling in blood'

This is totally consistent with someone simply being careful not to say to much…'Hot Potato'…but at the same time reassuring the public that there weren't going to be anymore murders. Which by this time I believe Anderson thought to be the case…why? Go check the Crawford letter thats why Anderson was certain..

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

How many Jews were arrested in connection to the ripper murders,or indeed any other murders,it is known Pizer was.How many riots ensued as a result?Why should Kosminski's arrest trigger a riot?

Then why erase the Goulston Graffiti? Yours Jef