For those who don't believe in "JTR"

[lynn cates]

wrapping

Hello GUT. Thanks.

Well, we know that there were ladies killed and that only their torsos remained. We know further that they were moved from point A (place killed) to point B (place found)--I make no mention about intermediate points.

The suggestion is that they were likely concealed by cloth or such and wheeled to point B in a barrow, or similar.

Now, by parity of reasoning, IF there were a killer who collected "trophies," and IF he wished to transport them, I see no overweening law of nature to prevent their being wrapped, etc.

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

So we're saying, are we, that there were two entirely separate serial killers floating around in London between, at least, say 1888 and 1889?

All the best

Dave

What are the odds Dave In such a tiny area over a remarkably short space of time? I've looked and looked, and can't find two mutilators operating in a situation which mirrors the Whitechapel atrocities. However, Stan Reid will now prove me incorrect I suspect. And forget the smoke and mirrors regarding sloppy cuts, two of the victims receiving two neck wounds another one, uterii harvesters, offal seller's, skilled dissector, unskilled dissector. The injuries point to a single killer.

Regards

Observer

[GUT]

G'day Lynn

Hello GUT. Thanks.

I'm not sure what you are asking? Of course, I don't believe in Jack and I make no assumptions about trophies.

If you are asking about, say, Annie's slayer, Could he have deposited her uterus in a cloth? I suppose. And is this relevant to the case?

Cheers.
LC

I know you don't believe in a "Ripper" but you commented that the Torso killer could perhaps walk around with the torso by wrapping it in a parcel, my post was relevant to the fact that so why couldn't any killer who took trophies?

[lynn cates]

on deposit

Hello GUT. Thanks.

I'm not sure what you are asking? Of course, I don't believe in Jack and I make no assumptions about trophies.

If you are asking about, say, Annie's slayer, Could he have deposited her uterus in a cloth? I suppose. And is this relevant to the case?

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

Hello Jon.

"here we have someone carrying a woman's torso."

Indeed. But how carried? Perhaps as a parcel in a wheelbarrow? Much less risk.

Cheers.
LC

G'day Lynn

So why couldn't Jacky boy have wrapped his trophies into a parcel?

[lynn cates]

Not n'est-ce pas--Hershey's.

Hello Hastings (AKA, Jon).

"Indeed Dave, and that is if we assume all the Whitechapel Murders, from Tabram to Coles, are applied to the same hand. If not then, three killers?, four,...five?
We're playing right into Lynn's hands with this..."

You are acute as ever mon ami. I see you have been agitating ze little grey cells, n'est-ce pas? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

carried

Hello Jon.

"here we have someone carrying a woman's torso."

Indeed. But how carried? Perhaps as a parcel in a wheelbarrow? Much less risk.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

So we're saying, are we, that there were two entirely separate serial killers floating around in London between, at least, say 1888 and 1889?

All the best

Dave

Dave, I think I would be saying that it's really quite impossible to know for certain as no one was ever brought to justice for any of the crimes.

[Lechmere]

I'm not saying it Cog.
My guess is one serial killer who did a lot more than 5 and several independents - with somewhere near twenty crimes involved in all.

[Wickerman]

Indeed Dave, and that is if we assume all the Whitechapel Murders, from Tabram to Coles, are applied to the same hand. If not then, three killers?, four,...five?
We're playing right into Lynn's hands with this....

[Cogidubnus]

So we're saying, are we, that there were two entirely separate serial killers floating around in London between, at least, say 1888 and 1889?

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

Hello Debra. It's interesting how much the Thames Torso Murders are overshadowed by the Ripper. I knew practically nothing about them until I began frequenting these forums. However, while both series of murders were barbarous acts of mutilation against women, I think they were clearly different operators. Jack confined himself to a localized area, struck in the open (with one exception), did as much evisceration as possible, then slipped back into the shadows. The Thames Torso Killer must have had somewhere private where was able to inflict the kind of torture and butchery upon his victims and a means of transporting them.

What are the chances that a confined area like Whitechapel happened to have more than one slasher with Jack's MO in the district working simultaneously?

Hi Harry,
But you would class the torso as a series despite differences in the way they were dismembered?
Torture?!

[John Wheat]

However, while both series of murders were barbarous acts of mutilation against women, I think they were clearly different operators. Jack confined himself to a localized area, struck in the open (with one exception), did as much evisceration as possible, then slipped back into the shadows. The Thames Torso Killer must have had somewhere private where was able to inflict the kind of torture and butchery upon his victims and a means of transporting them.

To Harry

I agree with what you are saying about Jack and the The Thames Torso Killer being different killers. However I question wether The Thames Torso Killer murdered his victims either by decapitation or by cutting there throats before dismemberment and therefore wether torture was the reason for dismemberment or not.

Cheers John

[Wickerman]

There are those who say the killer would be a fool to carry a piece of bloody apron through the streets, yet here we have someone carrying a woman's torso.

[Harry D]

No argument here, Harry. Just canvassing opinion. The thing that most many say that makes the Whitechapel murders unique is the mutilation (abdominal) and targetting of the uterus and other organs for removal in a victim being a prostitute, yes? Yet most would not include any of the torso murders as part of the series. So, was there another killer at large in London capable of similar mutilation and interested in the same organs as JTR? Elizabeth Jackson's murder appears to have a lot of similarities ( as I described) and the Whitehall torso also had her uterus missing.

Hello Debra. It's interesting how much the Thames Torso Murders are overshadowed by the Ripper. I knew practically nothing about them until I began frequenting these forums. However, while both series of murders were barbarous acts of mutilation against women, I think they were clearly different operators. Jack confined himself to a localized area, struck in the open (with one exception), did as much evisceration as possible, then slipped back into the shadows. The Thames Torso Killer must have had somewhere private where was able to inflict the kind of torture and butchery upon his victims and a means of transporting them.

What are the chances that a confined area like Whitechapel happened to have more than one slasher with Jack's MO in the district working simultaneously?